D&D 4E 4e Multiclassing

ChaosShard · Apr 7, 2008

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. If so, mods, please feel free to trash this one.

I had the chance to ask a question of Mr. Mearls at ICON on Saturday, and inquired about multiclassing and retraining rules.

They were still being coy about a few things, and this was one of them, however Mearls gave some interesting info out.

It seems that in 4e, when multiclassing, you don't get everything that the class you're going into gets for that level. Instead, you pick from a table of powers that the new class grants you access to, but not everything that class can do. His example was that (paraphrasing) in 3.x if you multiclass into fighter you'd get everything a fighter gets at level 1, that's not how it is now. Also, they want to discourage 'poaching', ala the 3.0 ranger, where all of the class' goodies were available at 1st level, and everyone was grabbing that level for 3 free feats.

However, if you multiclass into mage (another random example) you may have a decent combat spell, but it will probably be a bit (2-3 levels) below what a full-on mage is throwing. This way you're getting some solid performance from the secondary class, but not overshadowing someone who took that as their primary class.

I'm guessing that you may not get access to dailies, or perhaps even encounter abilities, at least not with a 1 level 'dip'. Again, this was something they were very tight lipped about, and the above sentence is pure conjecture on my part.

Retraining rules are in the PHB for both single and multiclass characters.

On a side note, the single combat demo was a blast, and Mearls' idol of the Hypnotoad almost ate our Halfling Paladin! :lol:

(Yeah, we used the same premades from DDXP)

Charwoman Gene · Apr 7, 2008

I already called this out in my whopping big thread but your info is more complete...

Umm Mearls' Hypno Toad almost ate our Halfling paladin too... I think we were in the same demo... I played the Tiefling Wizard who cast Ghost Sound on the hypno toad. Sunday 12pm?

JosephK · Apr 7, 2008

Mmmm, sounds good, but we'll see.. I was kinda hoping they'd use the model from Bo9S. Imo the multiclassing rules in there were a thing of beauty, elegant, efficient and just right powerwise (cool, awesome and varied abilities at your disposal, but without making single classed character lame og inferior).

Eldragon · Apr 7, 2008

You would think that since the books have gone to the printers, they would be a little more open about the details of the game. Multiclassing is a core mechanic to the game, and its not like it will stay a secret once the books hit the shelves.

Their official policy of "We arn't telling you how we are changing the game until release" is more responsible for me being wary of 4e than any actual rules changes.

keterys · Apr 7, 2008

I've been assuming that Bill grabbed it for one of his big monthly-ish reveals (rogue,elf,pit fiend, etc)

ppaladin123 · Apr 7, 2008

I wonder if multiclassing is going to be like final fantasy tactics/ff V, where you can set a secondary job/class that allows access to some of its powers but not its main attributes.

Kobold Avenger · Apr 7, 2008

It also doesn't describe if multi-classing will be level x/ level y characters for a level z character or not. So we're still left speculating whether it will be that or not. Just that it won't be like 3.x.

I speculate that classes have a lot more going on each level beyond power selection, and that might be where the "table of abilities" is. For example a Rogue's sneak attack is an ability that's not a power, it's a class feature. And it's likely that someone multiclassing into rogue, in whichever form it is, can't do a sneak attack higher than heroic tier amount (+2d6).

Pinotage · Apr 7, 2008

It's all fine and well if you multiclass and take some of the abilities of the new class, but what happens to the old class? I think how the old class and the new class advance together is going to be key to how multiclassing works and if it succeeds or not.

Pinotage

breschau · Apr 7, 2008

Kobold Avenger said:
It also doesn't describe if multi-classing will be level x/ level y characters for a level z character or not. So we're still left speculating whether it will be that or not. Just that it won't be like 3.x.

I speculate that classes have a lot more going on each level beyond power selection, and that might be where the "table of abilities" is. For example a Rogue's sneak attack is an ability that's not a power, it's a class feature. And it's likely that someone multiclassing into rogue, in whichever form it is, can't do a sneak attack higher than heroic tier amount (+2d6).

I would assume it's not going to be anything like Fighter 5/Cleric 2 = 7th level character. As they're already doing away with PrCs (having changed them to Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies). It's likely a simple talent tree. Multiclass 1 (you get to pick from the first row of abilities from the class you chose). Multiclass 2 (second row picks). Etc.

WyzardWhately · Apr 7, 2008

breschau said:
I would assume it's not going to be anything like Fighter 5/Cleric 2 = 7th level character. As they're already doing away with PrCs (having changed them to Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies). It's likely a simple talent tree. Multiclass 1 (you get to pick from the first row of abilities from the class you chose). Multiclass 2 (second row picks). Etc.

This is pretty much what I've been thinking, as well. So, there will be a ton of people saying that you can't REALLY multiclass, because you don't get to take levels of another class. Which is fine, because that's not really relevant to whether I'll like it or not.

Also: I love your .sig. That should be a t-shirt.