Kobold Wyrmpriest and Kobold Minions

Green Knight · Apr 15, 2008

Ok, I was lookin at the Monsters & More PDF that someone around here put together (Great work, by the way!) and I got a question.

The Kobold Wyrmpriest has the following ability.

Incite Faith (minor; encounter)
Close burst 10; kobold allies in the burst gain 5 temporary hit points and shift 1 square.

So how does this ability impact Kobold Minions? Do they gain 5 hit points to work with, or do they still die from one hit? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bayonet_Chris · Apr 15, 2008

Kobold minions

It was my impression that Kobold minions died in one hit because they only had effectively 1 hp. So they now would have 6 - still probably dying in one hit for most people. Just my guess, anyway. I would probably have them still die in one hit from a bookkeeping perspective anyway.

DeusExMachina · Apr 15, 2008

Exception based design says that the power (+5 temp hp) goes above the general rule (minions die when they take damage), so that would mean they get some hit points...

My instinct would say that kobold minions should still die after taking damage, no matter what the power gives them...

Common sense however says that even with 5 hit points these guys will most likely die with one hit anyway, so it won't matter a whole lot...

Blackbrrd · Apr 15, 2008

I think you are seeing it the wrong way round:
The normal rules are: you have hp
Abilities can boost hp
The exception is: minions die in one hit.

The above ability that gives temporary hit points doesn't say anything about minions not dying in one hit. Therefore it doesn't change the exception that minions die in one hit.

hong · Apr 15, 2008

This is probably the reason why kobold minions don't have hp: so that even after stuff like this, they'll still go down like minions are meant to. Going from 1 to 6 hp is a HUGE jump, which is what would happen if they had hp like other monsters.

ThirdWizard · Apr 15, 2008

What is interesting about this is that changing the kobold minion to have 6 hp might actually be worse for them, since they go from "you must hit them to kill them" to "you must deal 6 damage to kill them," and in certain circumstances where a miss still does damage, they would now be killed! Added to that the fact that the extra hp probably will never actually save one, and you end up with them being worse off if you allow the ability to "help" the poor lil' guys.

So, I would probably not allow them to be affected. Assuming the priest isn't trying to kill his allies.

hong · Apr 15, 2008

ThirdWizard said:
What is interesting about this is that changing the kobold minion to have 6 hp might actually be worse for them, since they go from "you must hit them to kill them" to "you must deal 6 damage to kill them," and in certain circumstances where a miss still does damage, they would now be killed! Added to that the fact that the extra hp probably will never actually save one, and you end up with them being worse off if you allow the ability to "help" the poor lil' guys.

/beats ThirdWizard with a stick

Green Knight · Apr 15, 2008

and in certain circumstances where a miss still does damage, they would now be killed

Wouldn't they be killed in those circumstances, anyway? I don't see the downside, as the extra 5 hit points would save them from getting Cleaved to death. Assuming they can get them. Though it's probable that they don't get them.

hong · Apr 15, 2008

Green Knight said:
Wouldn't they be killed in those circumstances, anyway? I don't see the downside, as the extra 5 hit points would save them from getting Cleaved to death. Assuming they can get them. Though it's probable that they don't get them.

ThirdWizard is going by the literal text for the kob minion, which says they only die if they "get hit by an attack that does damage". So if the attack misses, it didn't hit, therefore they don't die. The only recourse is to beat him with sticks.

Kitirat · Apr 15, 2008

hong said:
ThirdWizard is going by the literal text for the kob minion, which says they only die if they "get hit by an attack that does damage". So if the attack misses, it didn't hit, therefore they don't die. The only recourse is to beat him with sticks.

Minions have hit points (vampire spawn). Creatures who start with 0 hit points (like kobold minions) die when damaged. When the wyrm priest gives them hit points, they gain the 5 hit points and now require 5 hit points of damage to die. So in some cases they may survive a hit (and a cleave). Have run it and it works fine.