Too many vampires

DenMac

Explorer
Though all this it all boils down to that one point. "Monkey see Monkey do." That virtually answers the very original question on it's own don't it?

You see people see alot of vampires and some peope say to themselves. "Well why not make a Vampire myself, fit in more easily" Now that is only some people. But really it's just a trend.. I remember back in the wizard days this very question was asked, and well it got the same answer.. And as it has been said people look to popular things for character inspiration..Just look back at when the Underworld movies came out.. few weeks after that you saw alot of Vampires, Lychanthropes and the infamous Vampire/Lycanthrope Hybrid running around everywhere.. well I did.. And with Blade came the halfbloods and daywalkers.. If it's popuar people will follow... right now it's just the Vampire trend.. Soon you' see the Lycanthropes to come and counter them.. And then the hunters as previously mentioned.. And then we will see the influx of drow, then demons & devils and all the halfbreeds and love chids of those.

And as everyone has said the circle will come around again... And soon you will eventually see something way out there that everyone will follow.. Such as the Jedi's and Siths of starwars being turned into Psions and Soulknife character to allow them... Well maybe not quite that but you get the point. ;)
 
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Elf_Ariel

First Post
Tharivious said:
No no, Than's that other guy. ;)

Gah! I got 3/4 right. Counts for something?

I adore the I'll nibble but wont kill routine. Ariel, when I first had her turned, abided by that. Ask KC, the arguement was endless. Eventually I turned a book and way of thinking and came to realise; hey, nothin' wrong with being evil now is there. She'd already spent the majority of life that way, so why not unlife too. Now she's come to the kill everything I drink; for the sole purpose that if there's no one around to point fingers and say it was her that did the deed. For everything else, blame Jazzmyn ;-)!

For the record, mosquitoes are evil. Come to my place and find out. They come in swarms, hone in on spots that make itchiness rediculously embarrassing, and take turns biting from different directions until ya just crack it and take to them with bug spray. Speaking of that...how much money do ya reckon Ariel'd make right now if she developed a garlic/holywater spray...?

I suppose the real point is, how can one tell, if they are faking being good, or are actually trying to be good/feel the need to be that way? Ariel is generally a nice person but does that really make her good? She refrains from what're called evil behaviours in public for the sole fact that it rouses too much ire. And it's hard to feed when hunters are chasin' ya 'round the country side. Hence I tend to lead folk towards the idea that she's neutral, in all aspects; even though some here will sprout that that isn't possible.
 

Tharivious

First Post
Elf_Ariel said:
Gah! I got 3/4 right. Counts for something?
It counts for about 3/4 of a cookie. :p

For the record, mosquitoes are evil. Come to my place and find out. They come in swarms, hone in on spots that make itchiness rediculously embarrassing, and take turns biting from different directions until ya just crack it and take to them with bug spray.
Oh, right. You've got those Australian mosquitoes. Yeah, I'm a northerner, ours are barely half an inch long, and not nearly as bad. Ours are neutral. Yours... yeah, from everything I've heard, evil works.

I suppose the real point is, how can one tell, if they are faking being good, or are actually trying to be good/feel the need to be that way?
Now there's the magic of true, well played evil. :cool:
 

Elf_Ariel

First Post
Tharivious said:
It counts for about 3/4 of a cookie. :p
I'll pay that. And take it too. So long as someone edible has got the last quarter.

Oh, right. You've got those Australian mosquitoes. Yeah, I'm a northerner, ours are barely half an inch long, and not nearly as bad. Ours are neutral. Yours... yeah, from everything I've heard, evil works.
In Australia, everything is made big? Besides, we haven't even started on leeches ;-)

But to the point. I wonder, what would happen, if vampires did abide by the rules and regs of say...(3.5). I wonder how many would be left after the first week? I mean the way other characters are played often dictates that a vampire must be stronger than average to survive. Or smarter than average (as is Ariel's case).

As for that magic of true evil...I'm still workin' on it! ;)
 

Infernal Scribe

First Post
in fantasy, sci-fi and D&D itself there are all sorts of different vampires. the "default" vampire in the Monster Manual and the many hundreds of variants in Ravenloft and Dragon Magazine, the blood fiends of the Fiend Folio, the dozen different types in older editions, the ones closer to their cultural mythology in Asian cultures and others found in Gurps, the Cainites of WoD, the Kindred of the East, the Africian vampires, etc. Vampires come in all different flavors, like ice cream. Not all of them are hurt by the traditional things that hurt vampires (stone stakes for wooden stakes, garlic for ginseng, some of them are not generally evil either (freedom of destiny or template, etc). It just a common belief that most of them drain blood or parasitic in nature. In any case, its a freedom of destiny thing. People want to play em, have fun. It doesn't matter if your traditional or what not, for the vampire hunter. It just requires you to study/inquire/to learn about their weakneses and then exploit it. Like a good hunter should.
 

Warbridge

First Post
If anyone gets this far down and actually reads this as well as everything before it, as I did, I salute you. The following is not intended to add fuel to any fires, but we're a society of disclaimers in this day and age making it only fair to say that anything I say should be taken as being seasoned with humor or sarcasm. Hopefully the meat of what I say actually has some substance for such seasonings.

Vampires and the playing thereof is subject to the same whims among people as fashion does. It's the style today to play vampires: next week everyone will be playing a sasquatch and vampires will be so last winter. I do find it amusing the original poster is just seeing this now since vampires were being played when TSR was on AOL, then they were in the tavern when it was on TSR's website, then after it was bought by WotC, and so on down to the present. The only thing that changes are the number of them and what rules if any they play by. The same thing goes for lycanthropes, dark elves, or any other distinct group you can name.

The question asked is why there are so many now. Blame the media if it makes you happy. Point your finger at books like the Vampire Chronicles or the newer Twilight series. Give a nod toward the latest vampire flick du jour, of which Twilight sounds like it might be next, and I think 30 Days of Night was last. Then there is TV which has been mentioned. White Wolf's world makes a good target too. Throw a dart and save yourself the trouble of choosing, but you'd still be wrong. The answer lies with the people, not with the popular entertainment.

To be specific, the following observation revolves around a certain subset of the vampire players and should not be considered a broad stroke with which to paint everyone who walked into the dressing room to slap in their fangs and put on an opera cape before waltzing into the Tavern. There are a great many people who are lured by the romanticism that vampirism has been dressed up in for the last several decades. Even before that, Bram Stoker was dressing up a tall tale of a Transylvanian count in gothic romance in order to make a buck. The media profiteers off this of course, but they're only selling a product that has an established market. The market, which are the people I mentioned previously, devour the products on the market for a lot of different reasons. Tell me if this sounds familiar: the luxurious clothes, the exotic locales, the grand events, and the pretty people (for the most part). Technically we could be talking about anything using those descriptions, but the point is that there are people who read about these things and it rings out to them on some level. This is how they want their escapism to look and feel. This doesn't mean all of them just do it because it is cool.

If this interest were taken to the logical conclusion, there would be a lot more people wearing black velvet or PVC out at night. Many of the people that already do this are likely fine people who just crave a little more out of life than the hum drum. The ones who do it in the Tavern are just using a different venue in which to explore their interests. "Monkey see, Monkey do" is almost right: the people who fall into this category automatically associate a certain romantic ideal to vampires, and playing them in a chat room or dressing up like them at a club allows people to experience a shared ideal and thus connect with others on some basis. I think it boils down to making that connection with other people that is what makes a lot of people play as vampires. It is also more complicated than simply wanting to belong; people want to share their own ideas and feelings as well as form that initial bond.

Funny that someone blamed Buffy for the issue in the 90's. In the second season they had an episode where there were a bunch of people dressing up at night and going out dressed like their romanticized interpretations of vampires. They even wanted to become vampires despite what the vampire slayer was telling them about all the grim reality. The pictures some people paint in their own minds are too rosey to accept another's reality.

That's why I think there have been and will continue to be vampires in RP chat rooms. I do take a bit of issue with the term "Monkey see, Monkey do" with regard to calling it inspiration. The term describes copying something seen and has little to do with adding new material or searching out new applications based on the original idea. Inspiration can start with something seen for the base, but it is demeaning to the new ideas which others can add into the mix to lump them in with the cookie cutter versions.

The original question, while interesting, dragged up a number of equally interesting and even some larger points, such as:

- Players playing by a different ruleset
- Players playing by no ruleset
- The nature of vampires (more in the general sense, but also game specific
- Conflicts in interpretation of alignment
- RP etiquette
- Role of media in popular culture
- "Us vs. Them"

Frankly I am too tired to make you read an interpretation on any of these. Any one of them could fill a post this length or more with ease. They're all fascinating subjects in which we all share interest and diverse opinions about. Any of us could discuss them at obnoxious length if we choose to inflict such a thing on others. Although I've discussed and would like to share one thing about the "Us vs. Them" issue. In the past I talked about this issue connected to an unrelated context that still parallels this one in implications. The short version is that there is no "Us vs. Them" there is only "Us." In this case, us is the RP community and looking at it as "Us vs. Them" only insures division of the community followed by dischord.

Oh, and on the subject of different versions of vampiric weaknesses: second edition had alternative vampires which didn't follow the same vulnerability rules. They got the idea like so many others by raiding the treasure chest of real world myths and legends. vampires in legends of different countries do not necessarily obey the same rules we know and expect from D&D. If I remember right, vampires in Japan or China were thought to be able to wander around in daylight and had a number of other unusual abilities. I think Van Richten's Guide also offered a lot of different options for vampire powers and vulnerabilities.

The one subject I don't see written out in big letters (I may have missed it in small letters) is related to the ruleset we play by, but is unrelated to a game system. By this I mean the setting rules for the Tavern which we all must play by or be flung to ravenous aardvarks. Specifically the setting rules say that vampires cannot wander to and fro flaunting their abilities and nature for all the nobles and peasantry to see without the end result being torches and pitchforks. When a friend dragged my sorry hide back to free-form RP from a long hiatus I read the rules and started making a list of which characters could be played in the Tavern and which could be played outside of it. Some of the characters were liked for originality or other details when I created them under the TSR/WotC version of the Tavern, but it isn't fair for one person to do something if all parties are to have the rules applied to them equally.

There is nothing equal about running about with your fangs hanging out and turning into mist or bats all the time. Now I play some characters that hide their identities or cover up out in public to avoid the torches and pitchforks that would appear should they make their true nature's known. Most of the characters I play like this are either near and dear to my heart or they have a detailed story line they need to put in some appearences to pull off. To put it another way, some characters simply require a few concessions to make them setting friendly. In the case of priests that appears to mean only using Oerth gods, which might help explain why I see few if any clerics played. In the case of one of a character I've played since 1996, this means leaving out an infamous prop that I referred to as "spell blasters". If you are thinking a firearm that shoots a fireball, you're close but not quite right. Personally I liked firing web spells most, but ice knife, fireball, flame arrow and more were viable. I rarely used them, they had good solid rules for gameplay use, and they sat in the holsters just for show most of the time. My point is that while I still have them, I don't bring them into the Tavern with me. For one thing, since there's no fighting I don't need them. Honestly I think there should be a weapon check girl at the door disarming some of the people that traipse in. If I play by the setting rules and leave my pistols at home, then keep your vampiric powers set between none and bare minimum please.

Should the vampire powers continue to be flaunted unchecked, then there are ways to deal with the situation that don't involve me breaking the rules as well. Two words: undead hunters. Fashionable they certainly are not, but that's number one the list of how to deal with a vampiric plague in my book. Considering the plague in question, glad I have two hunters. ;)

What vampire knowlingly goes into a bar full of self-repairing wooden furniture? It's a never ending ammunition cache people!



War

"Good...bad...I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash, Army of Darkness
 
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Elf_Ariel

First Post
Cute. And I read the whole thing. Got a good laugh, some insightful info, some ideas and ideals I should look into...and more than half of it went WAY over my head.

The us vs them issue, as I believe Morty meant it, pertains to IC discrepencies rather than OOC rivalries. I understand some folk have dramas with that particular line.

But I am curious, with your hunters...and whatnot. What do you propose to do, about the fact of known vampires. All one has gotta do, is wave a detect undead wand at Ariel and she's screwed. Not to mention that the ooc knowledge that she's a vamp seems to automatically flow into IC grounds (again with that ic/ooc grey matter area). So far as I know, Ariel's never fed in the public grounds of anywhere on site, nor batted (occassionally misted granted, but hell, I've seen non-vamps accomplish similar). It could all just be some huge viscious rumour that she's a vampire. So when ya'all feelling lucky and breaking off chair legs and levelling them at her, dont be surprised when she not-so-politely replies with a 'dont point that thing at me'. Similarly I doubt anyone, vamp or no, will be obliging to bend over and letcha in on that kinda treatment.

Though it's not a rumour...Maybe I should start some though ;-). Or just start selling, stake proof vests... :cool:
 

Ok all I am saying is that if you a vampire character it doesn't make you immune to damage or attacks as some have done...I have been told as other characters that I cannot kill a vampire because I do not know what I am doing.....I think my friends who play hunters of the dead will say otherwise that classes like that know what they speak of. All I ask is for people to stop being SNERTS about being a vampire and thinking you are the more powerful than a standard living being.
 

Mortonia

First Post
Protector_corwin said:
All I ask is for people to stop being SNERTS about being a vampire and thinking you are the more powerful than a standard living being.

SNERTS - I haven't heard that word in years. I actually laughed so hard, Pepsi came out of my nose.

And - um, not to rain on anyone's parade, but vampires, as well as a whole horde of other supernatural creatures, are more powerful than standard living beings. They have to be, since the weak ones don't make it past mommy and daddy vampire (or werewolf, or lich, etc etc) to interact with the rest of us.

That does not, however, mean they are invulnerable. As I am fond of saying, it's not that vampires can't be killed, it's just a lot harder to do (than you might think). Fire is a good place to start. Just don't be surprised when the smart ones run away.

And then come back later and eat you in your sleep.
 


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