Compiled info on upcoming classes & races

Rechan · Apr 23, 2008

Kobold Avenger said:
Try 1e, that's where the Monk first appeared.

Which doesn't impact the complaints. The Assassin was in 1e, and it was regulated to Evil PrC in DMG in 3e.

But, okay, with your predictions and where things should be, we'll see if WotC groups them in an Asian power source or not.

MaelStorm · Apr 23, 2008

Rechan said:
That's really nice, but there are so many things that people want the Monk to be:

Kung fu interior mystic (See: 3e)

Non-mystical, non-magical unarmed attacker.

A divine-related class. A psionic class. A ki class. A martial class.

A striker, a controller. And you're saying a defender.

There's too much that people expect from the monk for it to all go into one thing. A decision must be made. And it's easier to split the Monk up into different areas than to try and do it either one way or cram them all together.

As to the "asian" power source, you have any idea how much complaining has gone on since the Monk was in 3e? How it didn't "Fit" the "Fantasy Genre" that most people wanted? Same thing. The genre or flavor didn't fit. So the monk/ninja/samurai gets put in its own little area because the "I don't like oriental flavor in my fantasy" is too vocal a group to ignore.

You're dealing with different vocal fanbases that expect different things, and thus the biggest groups will get what they want, not individuals that want it all.

I'm not telling you what I want. I'm telling you how it's going to be. I will bet you cash that market research reflects the above, and what I said here is how WotC is going to do it. No matter individual preferences to the contrary.

I really agree 100% with you.

Maybe 4E will introduce an oriental flavored Player's Handbook. Or maybe they'll go on with the Ki power source in a future Player's Handbook.

Kobold Avenger · Apr 23, 2008

Kensai is quite clearly in the Martial power source as a Paragon Path for a Martial power source class, and not in any "Asian" power source.

Irda Ranger · Apr 23, 2008

jeffhartsell said:
It will be interesting to see what a ... psionic defender look like.

Jedi. Though he's possibly a Controller with Force Push. And a Striker with Force Choke and Force Lightling. And a Leader with Cloud the Weakminded ("Arise, those wounds are not as bad as you think they are.").

Awh, forget it. Jedi is just the 3E Cleric of Star Wars (the movies, not SWSE).

Oh, and Ki is just "Asian Martial." There is no need whatsoever for a Ki Power Source. The Kensei Fighter-only Paragon Path says WotC agrees with me. One of my first characters may well be a "ninja" that's just a Rogue in black pyjamas, or maybe a Shaoulin Monk that's just a Rogue in red pyjamas, has the Unarmed Attack feat and took "Religion" instead of "Thievery."

Kobold Avenger · Apr 23, 2008

What I'm interested with psionic classes is how they'll deal with previous psionic ideas in previous editions.

Psionic Focus: Was described as being one of WotC's early attempts at having encounter powers. Could be in, but might be too complicated with the whole Maintained/Expended Focus dichotomy everything had.

Attack Modes: I'm 95% sure that most of the psionic attack modes will be At Will powers.

Power Points: Probably out of the system now, based on how powers work.

Crystals/Snot/Ectoplasm: Probably in, because it's something unique for psionics, even though it doesn't match a lot of people's ideas on what psionics should use.

Dorjes/Psi-crowns: Possibly in as "psionic implements", but then again they were "psionic-X" versions of wands and staffs, so they could be out.

Mantles/Auras: If there's an Ardent/Divine Mind 2.0 these might be back in.

Soulknives: Probably will be in, in some form, since the imagery of soulknives is something that WotC probably wouldn't want to give up.

JohnSnow · Apr 23, 2008

Given that western fantasy has been swiping concepts and elements from eastern cultures for decades now, I wholeheartedly endorse the elimination of "cultural specificity" in D&D, especially in regards to power sources.

And I say that as someone who very much enjoys European fantasy all by itself. However, I can see the value in the fantastic hodgepodge WotC is pushing. One example of a work that has done this sort of cultural hodgepodge (though not everyone enjoys it) is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. It has elements borrowed from Japanese culture, arabic culture, and various others. They're all thrown together and it is sometimes hard to identify where each piece comes from. The whole is more fantastic and original than just "Europe with a fantasy overlay."

As far as D&D itself goes, given that the monk was introduced to the game decades ago, and the last few editions gave us various celtic archetypes using scimitars, I think we're long past any "cultural purity" in D&D. Hell, one of my first homebrew items back when I was new to D&D was adding a ninja class.

Which is a long way of saying that I highly doubt we'll see a "Ki" power source. We may see the monk reappear as a psionic striker or a martial striker. On the other hand, the class we get may more closely resemble the swordsage instead.

I think it's highly likely that somewhere along the way, we'll get a class that closely resembles Jedi. As far as role, it might be a striker, or a defender, with or without a sub-role that has aspects of control to it.

Ondo · Apr 24, 2008

JohnSnow said:
We may see the monk reappear as a psionic striker or a martial striker.

Actually, Andy Collins has said he won't be a martial striker. (That's the kind of info this thread is for, though it's wandered far.)

FabioMilitoPagliara · Apr 25, 2008

JohnSnow said:
I think it's highly likely that somewhere along the way, we'll get a class that closely resembles Jedi. As far as role, it might be a striker, or a defender, with or without a sub-role that has aspects of control to it.

well... the psionic leader should be the perfect fit to the Jedi class in fantasy dress

the monk could be the psionic striker or martial controller (since it's 50% wrong that it's the martial striker), I would cast it as the martial controller

FabioMilitoPagliara · Apr 25, 2008

Kobold Avenger said:
What I'm interested with psionic classes is how they'll deal with previous psionic ideas in previous editions.

I hope they steer more toward the "mind mage" archetype than the more sci-fi psionicist of old editions, it's more a question of flavor than power

telekinesis -> mind hands
telepathy -> mind tongue

and so on

Green Knight · Apr 25, 2008

You know, thinking about it, I wouldn't mind if the Monk were recast as a Divine Striker. That'd actually be kind of neat. Throw in a Priest (or whatever his name is) for a Divine Controller, and you can have a party which consists of members of a religious order. The Divine Defender, Divine Leader, Divine Striker, and Divine Controller. Paladin, Cleric, Monk, and Priest. That sounds pretty good to me.