Keep on the Shadowfell preview

Rechan · May 8, 2008

Dragonblade said:
Should be ok. The paladin ends his turn adjacent and marks.

The kobold's shift is a reaction not an interrupt, so the kobold's shift occurs immediately after the paladin ends his turn. So the kobold is still marked.

Of course,

the kobold could shift away, and another kobold shift into its place. I.e. "I'm hit I'm hit halp! Get in his way!"

Gargazon · May 8, 2008

Dragonblade said:
Should be ok. The paladin ends his turn adjacent and marks. The kobold's shift is a reaction not an interrupt, so the kobold's shift occurs immediately after the paladin ends his turn. So the kobold is still marked.

No, the shift happens immediately after the Paladin moves. The end of the turn follows the ending of movement, and so is after the shifting.

However, I've noticed that it explictly says that the mark still functions if you try and attack the target (not if you actually hit them) so I imagine you just need to blindly swing you blade at a gobbo to keep him marked.

Mouseferatu · May 8, 2008

Dragonblade said:
Should be ok. The paladin ends his turn adjacent and marks. The kobold's shift is a reaction not an interrupt, so the kobold's shift occurs immediately after the paladin ends his turn. So the kobold is still marked.

Unfortunately, no. The reaction is the very next thing to happen after the triggering action. In that respect, it does interrupt someone else's turn. So even if moving adjacent is the last thing the paladin does, the shift technically happens before his turn is "officially" over. (For instance, if the paladin had any saves left to make, it would be move, kobold shifts, paladin saves.)

So yes, these guys are a PITA for paladins. But that's okay, IMO.

WhatGravitas · May 8, 2008

Rechan said:
And the goblin's "Move if an attack doesn't hit you".

Perfect for little, cowardly, nasty buggers like them!

Or did anybody think that a gobbo would fight fair?

Cheers, LT.

Sojorn · May 8, 2008

Charge.

The shift comes after and by then you've attacked.

Edit: Of course now Ari has me doubting that. Is charge one action or two?

Kordeth · May 8, 2008

thalmin said:
On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target. To engage it, you must either attack it or end you turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can't use Divine Challenge on your next turn.
You can use Divine Challenge once per turn.

Not bad--I think I'd probably rule that if you begin your turn adjacent to the target, you must attack it this turn, but this is still a good fix.

Dragonblade · May 8, 2008

Gargazon said:
No, the shift happens immediately after the Paladin moves. The end of the turn follows the ending of movement, and so is after the shifting.

Incorrect. Per the Scale Gloom hall handout, immediate reactions occur only after the preceding turn has been fully resolved. Only interrupts occur in the middle of another creature's turn.

Derren · May 8, 2008

On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target. To engage it, you must either attack it or end you turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can't use Divine Challenge on your next turn.
You can use Divine Challenge once per turn.

Its a rather bad fix. This way its still possible for the paladin to stay back and pelt the enemy with ranged attacks while also dealing automatic damage to it.

Mouseferatu · May 8, 2008

Dragonblade said:
Incorrect. Per the Scale Gloom hall handout, immediate reactions occur only after the preceding turn has been fully resolved. Only interrupts occur in the middle of another creature's turn.

Immediate reactions occur after the action that triggered them, not after the whole turn.

Dragonblade · May 8, 2008

Mouseferatu said:
Unfortunately, no. The reaction is the very next thing to happen after the triggering action. In that respect, it does interrupt someone else's turn. So even if moving adjacent is the last thing the paladin does, the shift technically happens before his turn is "officially" over. (For instance, if the paladin had any saves left to make, it would be move, kobold shifts, paladin saves.)

So yes, these guys are a PITA for paladins. But that's okay, IMO.

Not according to the Scale Gloom handout from WotC, which clearly distinguishes between immediate reactions and immediate interrupts. And specifically says that reactions only occur after the preceding turn is resolved.

Of course, you're ruleset may be different than what I was looking at since you have the full rules.

Keep on the Shadowfell preview

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