Q&A with Gary Gygax - Part I - Page 62




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  1. #611
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    Beating the Wind

    Yuletide Salutations!

    Good grief, who but P-A would dredge up this ancient thread?

    It should be pretty well known by all that I consider any game where the players' characters arn not fully able to impact the environment, direct their action, determine the outcome of events in which they play a part, and know that what actions their characters are taking have a probability of success and failure that can be determined by random means, cards or dice rather then the whim of the GM, is something other than an RPG,

    Authors of fiction, screen plays, and playwrights create stories. GMs direct game play and in conjunction with the players this generates a story whose outcome is not prescribed.

    If people enjoy playing limited roles in an game setting in which there are "untouchables," where they must be marionettes for the GM to move about, well and good. It is just not full RPG activity, and often is little more than amateur theatrics, play acting in a minor and surely inferior story line built as an adjunct to the original authored fiction and relatively meaningless to that work. Still, if it's entertaining to the participants, it is fulfilling its purpose, but it ain't RPGing.

    This is a dead horse, actually, as something well over nine gamers in 10 have by their choice of game agreed with me. "Storytelling" games have made their advent, gone nowhere thereafter. What more is there to say?

    Cheers,
    Gary

 

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    Santa PA

    Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
    Yuletide Salutations!

    Good grief, who but P-A would dredge up this ancient thread?
    Consider that my Christmas present.


    Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
    It should be pretty well known by all that I consider any game where the players' characters arn not fully able to impact the environment, direct their action, determine the outcome of events in which they play a part, and know that what actions their characters are taking have a probability of success and failure that can be determined by random means, cards or dice rather then the whim of the GM, is something other than an RPG,

    Authors of fiction, screen plays, and playwrights create stories. GMs direct game play and in conjunction with the players this generates a story whose outcome is not prescribed.

    If people enjoy playing limited roles in an game setting in which there are "untouchables," where they must be marionettes for the GM to move about, well and good. It is just not full RPG activity, and often is little more than amateur theatrics, play acting in a minor and surely inferior story line built as an adjunct to the original authored fiction and relatively meaningless to that work. Still, if it's entertaining to the participants, it is fulfilling its purpose, but it ain't RPGing.

    This is a dead horse, actually, as something well over nine gamers in 10 have by their choice of game agreed with me. "Storytelling" games have made their advent, gone nowhere thereafter. What more is there to say?
    Eh eh, a lot, but most we have already discussed by email and I have little hope now that you will ever see the light. But if you think that nothing the players say without the back up of dice can change what the GM had in mind for them, then it means that you must roll dice for everything. No more talking with NPCs, just roll your Diplomacy check (or Charisma check, under OAD&D) and be done with it.

    Having been a diceless DM, I remember having let myself swayed by a player's description of how he handled his fight. If indeed I have been too much of a railroader, it is not before my last months as a GM, and when I realized that... I actually stopped RPGing altogether. It came more from my forgetting what it felt to be a player than from gaming diceless, though; I find it also all too easy to railroad a game in which buckets of dice are thrown.

  • #613
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    Re: Santa PA

    Originally posted by PA


    Consider that my Christmas present.

    Proof positive that The Grinch was modeled upon none other that you, Dear Fellow!

    Happy Christmastime, PA

    Warm regards,
    Gary

    P.S. Check out my icon on my posts at www.LejendaryAdventure.com and advise me if the one you did of me with the halo would be more appropriate, okay?
    Last edited by Col_Pladoh; Sunday, 22nd December, 2002 at 04:31 PM.

  • #614
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    I Defended The Walls!

    Ignore Cedric
    Someone may have already asked this question, if so, I apologize...

    How do you feel about rolling treasure randomly in 1st Edition and assigning XP to characters for Magic Items they receive?

    Cedric

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    Re: Re: Santa PA

    Originally posted by Col_Pladoh


    Proof positive that The Grinch was modeled upon none other that you, Dear Fellow!

    Happy Christmastime, PA

    Warm regards,
    Gary

    P.S. Check out my icon on my posts at www.LejendaryAdventure.com and advise me if the one you did of me with the halo would be more appropriate, okay?
    No need to check out, I had already visited the website and its forum, and I do think that the Dr Midnight version you use suits you best.

  • #616
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    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)

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    Originally posted by Cedric
    Someone may have already asked this question, if so, I apologize...

    How do you feel about rolling treasure randomly in 1st Edition and assigning XP to characters for Magic Items they receive?

    Cedric
    Xmas Greetings, Cedric

    Nobody has asked that question before this.

    Actually we found the random tables great when the PCs were out in the wilderness on non-scripted adventures, encontering monsters randomly, finding treasure likewise. Of course often times the DM added extra monsters guarding the loot--whatever it turned out to be eventually. Mordenkainen did well waylaying bandits, brigands, and ppirates thus, but sometimes coming up empty after a hard fight with magic items expended for little reward.

    Cheerio,
    Gary

  • #617
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    Santa PA's Vote

    Originally posted by PA


    No need to check out, I had already visited the website and its forum, and I do think that the Dr Midnight version you use suits you best.
    Well excellent, PA!

    I had thought I should alter it, and your suggesting the pic remain the devilsh one the Good Dr. Midnight devised has tipped the scales.

    I have sent off to Dan at Dreams Interactive the jpg in which the saintly halo appears over my head as is proper. I thank you again for that work of true homage, Old Sport!

    Merrie Christmas,
    GAry

  • #618
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    Re: Santa PA

    Originally posted by PA
    I find it also all too easy to railroad a game in which buckets of dice are thrown.
    I would think that, if railroading were the intention, it would be easier in a game with fewer built-in variables rather than more built-in variables, no?
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  • #619
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    Re: Re: Santa PA

    Originally posted by Mark


    I would think that, if railroading were the intention, it would be easier in a game with fewer built-in variables rather than more built-in variables, no?
    Yes, when variables and outcomes are known, and the random number generation is done so all can see, there is no railroading--make that GM fudging--possible in regards the probabilities and the outcome. When the GM is able to pull "results" out of thin air, there goes a structured game.

    Cheerie Holidays,
    Gary

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    I scoff at diceless roleplaying. How is it any different than a bunch of grown individuals sitting around playing "Lets pretend?"

    Seriously Gary, I completely agree with your point of view. You should know too since you invented roleplaying.

    Now that I have brown nosed sufficiently, (and pardon me if this question has already been answered), what type of adventure do you find to be the most fun to run - the player killer adventure (Tomb of Horrors - Here's something evil in a big hole with lots of treasure - go kill it. Oh, did I mention it will be impossible?) or a more long-term adventure that involves lots of fights the characters can actually win and an actual plot, such as "Temple of Elemental Evil"?

    Aside from these light hearted jabs at your expense (they are classics, you have to make fun of classics, you know...), I am curious which one you enjoy running more.
    Darrin Drader - Writer/RPG Game Designer - www.amazon.com/author/darrindrader

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