TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh · Jul 3, 2005

gideon_thorne said:
I think the main difference here lay in a matter of focus.

Temper of the game design, mindset of the players, focus of play. that is an excellent addition, thank you very much!

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh · Jul 3, 2005

gideon_thorne said:
Gen Con still look's easily doable. The Lake Geneva event may be a bit sticky though.

Excellent news indeed. I am delighted, for I feared my mucking about with map corrections and additions would make the Gencon release problematical.

Thanks,
Gary

A'koss · Jul 3, 2005

gideon_thorne said:
I think the main difference here lay in a matter of focus.

Yes, the adventuring character in AD&D is well above the average and in some cases exceptional in compitency. But he is also focused around a single profession, and thus tends to require other 'specialists' around him for efficient group cooperation.

I don't see how that's changed significantly in the later editions. You still need the core quartet in 3e adventures (fighter/wizard/cleric/rogue), do you not?

This, with the more rapid experience advancement can give a tendency to develop characters who gain loads of broad powers rather quickly.

The change towards more rapid advancement was due to the market research they had done prior to 3e. It found that most people really don't play that often, hence the faster accumulation of XP. See some advance when you do play... However, that is a small issue IMO, experienced DMs can reduce the amount of XP given to their parties without making the party power curve wonky.

The current game simply allowes for more power (via numbers and points) than was the norm in prior editions. The focus is then taken off story and instead placed on who's got the better ability build.

I absolutely agree that the current editions are a bit too rule heavy, but at the same token, the early editions are a bit too rules-lite. I think feats and skills have, overall, been a good addition to the game. It gives players ways to better mirror the archetype they're looking to model, especially the fighting classes. In the early editions, all fighting types looked the same. All fighters had platemail, shield, bow, longsword (or T-H sword) and made their standard attacks. Only magic items gave them any real distinction. 3e is certainly not perfect in it's implementation, but I think it's something that is worth refining in later editions.

Cheers!

A'koss.

bolen · Jul 3, 2005

Hey Gary

Got a couple of questions for you

1) are you going to gen con next month (hope so)

2) I have been curious about this for a long time. (correct anything I get wrong please) D&D started out as a miniatures game which evolved from controling a group of soldiers on the battlefield to one person going into a dungeon (right?). At what point did it stop being a game of one player against another and evolve into Roleplaying where a DM controls the environment and creates a story. That would seem to be a huge leap and it could not have happened over night.

I personally would buy a book where you (and maybe some of the other originators of the RPG field) discussed how this evolution took place. (and even what you think of it today and where it should go tomorrow)

3) I heard that you were going to revise the canting crew by Troll Lord games. Is that true and if so can you give details?

gideon_thorne · Jul 3, 2005

We must have been playing different games then. I certainly never had this problem. Every character I have ever encountered in the groups I played with was unique. Abilties and magical items were not relavent to this. The fact that people want to write up all their equipment lists identical is not a fault of the system.

A'koss said:
In the early editions, all fighting types looked the same. All fighters had platemail, shield, bow, longsword (or T-H sword) and made their standard attacks. Only magic items gave them any real distinction. 3e is certainly not perfect in it's implementation, but I think it's something that is worth refining in later editions.

Cheers!

A'koss.

A'koss · Jul 3, 2005

Col_Pladoh said:
Pardon,

That is parsing words. The mythological and fantasy archetypes are very human, quite mortal save for some of their magical attributes, mostly gained through brave deeds. Robin Hood, Lancelot, Sir Roland, and the host of examples in fairy tales told by Andrew Lang, even Fafhed and the Gray Mouser and Harold Shea are very much human, within normal human mental and physical bounds. Conan has marvelous strength, bit is is at best preternatural.

Indeed. However, that's neither here nor there as D&D has never, ever, been geared to model these archetypes in the way you're suggesting. D&D character have always been able to vastly exceed the capabilities of the figures you mention. Could any of them fall from orbit, get up, dust themselves off and continue soldiering on? You could never model the armorless characters in D&D without either being a monk or with the aid of magic. And speaking of armor, in the early editions, you could quite literally have an AC so low that you were completely invulnerable to the attacks of LL beings. A high level AD&D fighter with a -8 AC could waltz all over a LL army with complete impunity. It wouldn't matter if they could fire 200,000 arrows/rd on his location. D&D characters do not tire, nor do they suffer any detrimental effects of injury until they are KO'd or dead.

Again, 3e does give you a lot more powers/options, no question, but I don't see that earlier edition characters were any more "human". Not in any way that really mattered.

Cheers!

A'koss.

gideon_thorne · Jul 3, 2005

Clearly playing two different games here.

A'koss said:
Indeed. However, that's neither here nor there as D&D has never, ever, been geared to model these archetypes in the way you're suggesting. D&D character have always been able to vastly exceed the capabilities of the figures you mention. Could any of them fall from orbit, get up, dust themselves off and continue soldiering on? You could never model the armorless characters in D&D without either being a monk or with the aid of magic. And speaking of armor, in the early editions, you could quite literally have an AC so low that you were completely invulnerable to the attacks of LL beings. A high level AD&D fighter with a -8 AC could waltz all over a LL army with complete impunity. It wouldn't matter if they could fire 200,000 arrows/rd on his location. D&D characters do not tire, nor do they suffer any detrimental effects of injury until they are KO'd or dead.

Again, 3e does give you a lot more powers/options, no question, but I don't see that earlier edition characters were any more "human". Not in any way that really mattered.

Cheers!

A'koss.

A'koss · Jul 3, 2005

gideon_thorne said:
Clearly playing two different games here.

Eh? Nothing I've pointed out here contradicts the RAW... All I'm really saying here is, from the average man's/soldier's perspective, what's the difference between a 15th level AD&D character and a 3e one? They're both effectively demigods/superheroes to his eyes.

Cheers!

A'koss.

Col_Pladoh · Jul 3, 2005

bolen said:
Hey Gary

Got a couple of questions for you

Howdy Bolen!

I am about to supply a couple of answers

1) are you going to gen con next month (hope so)

My son Alex is slated to be at GenCon with Troll lord Games, but I am attending only two events this year:

Lake Geneva Gaming Convention here at the end of this month.

Canadian National Gamine Expo in Toronto at the end of August.

2) I have been curious about this for a long time. (correct anything I get wrong please) D&D started out as a miniatures game which evolved from controling a group of soldiers on the battlefield to one person going into a dungeon (right?). At what point did it stop being a game of one player against another and evolve into Roleplaying where a DM controls the environment and creates a story. That would seem to be a huge leap and it could not have happened over night.

That's essentially correct, the game being Chainmail using th "Man-to-Man" rules. What with command figures and the rules, individual figure play was not startling. When heroes, superheroes, and wizards were considered in the "Fantasy supplement," the concept of a player with but a single figure on the table born. I would use my point buys to take a superhero in magic armor, with a magic sword, backed up by a wizard with fireball spells. The superhero would assail the mass of enemy troops, and when they gathered round to attack him the wizard would drop a fireball on the lot. The superhero was very likely to come out unscathed, much to the fury of my opponents.

I personally would buy a book where you (and maybe some of the other originators of the RPG field) discussed how this evolution took place. (and even what you think of it today and where it should go tomorrow)

Well, with what's above, and what I ahve passed along regarding the initial and final drafts of the game that became D&D, the story is pretty well told.

Dave Arneson's focus on underground play, using maps, and his suggestion of having a Hero be able to work up to Superhero status were most helpful.

Dave Megary is generallly not sufficiently credited for inspiring things, for his DUNGEON! game, based on the CHAINMAIL work, predates D&D.

3) I heard that you were going to revise the canting crew by Troll Lord games. Is that true and if so can you give details?

No changes from me, but I believe that the Trolls plan to re-edit the work and add more illustration. There might be a few words added to the dictionary of Thieves' Cant, but as far as I know that's it. Only the Trolls know for sure

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh · Jul 3, 2005

A'koss said:
Eh? Nothing I've pointed out here contradicts the RAW... All I'm really saying here is, from the average man's/soldier's perspective, what's the difference between a 15th level AD&D character and a 3e one? They're both effectively demigods/superheroes to his eyes.

Cheers!

A'koss.

How about this:

A 15th level PC in AD&D requires years of gaming, and when arriving at thay level the character is generally retired.

In new D&D arriving at that level takes a mere few months, and that PC is nothing compared to the half-dragon/half-vampire multi-prestige class one that the kid next door stomps around the campaign world with :lol:

Gary

TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

A'koss

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bolen

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gideon_thorne

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A'koss

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gideon_thorne

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A'koss

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Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

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