TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Wolv0rine · Jul 10, 2005

Orius said:
Well, I certainly agree with you there. I've never been a big fan of the spiked armor, heavy tattoos and body piercing, and excessive buckles that marked early 3e art. The mishmash armor that is shown on several characters that looked liked they were equipped with bits and pieces scavanged from a battlefield was also something that I dislike strongly as well.

Well, while I found the spiked armor a bit much (there are pros to it, but I think the cons far outweigh them), and while the plethora of buckles look can be visually amusing (and interesting for the artist on occasion) but is still completely and unavoidably ill-advised... I can say that the mish-mash armor look is something that I do tend to like. It's not like everyone can afford to have a full set of matching gucci armor custom-made for them (and matching custom pieces to replace any broken or lost pieces). Mis-matched armor is what you're really likely to end up with after any given amount of time in the field. It's one of the few believable things I do see in such artwork. I usually try to include at least a small piece of something that doesn't match a character's outfit when I do illustration work, just to add that small imperfection to the overall whole.

Steverooo · Jul 10, 2005

Spiked Armor: Stupid?

It isn't, really (although it's not all that historical, either, but, hey; it's fantasy)! There are a lot of places where spikes wouldn't get in the way, and could be used as "Off-Hand Weapons", as the rules describe...

1) Spiked Steel Codpiece. This pre-athletic supporter deflects and injures an incoming enemy knee. "You knee me in the groin? Okay, take 1D6 damage, plus my STR Bonus, Orc-face!"

2) Spiked Greeves. Spikes at the top, protecting the kneecaps. When the knee is bent, the spike is exposed, allowing a knee to the groin to do even more damage (and not be an Unarmed Strike, which provokes an attack of opportunity). What is it the original Oriental Adventures called greaves? Shinobi?

3) Spiked Bracers/Dastana. Bracers covering the arm from wrists to elbows, with the spikes attached to the rears of the elbows, where they are out of the way, when the arms are straight, but make an elbow smash even more (puncture) damaging.

4) Breastplate Shoulder Spikes. A pair of spikes coming off the breastplate over each shoulder, in a reverse "C" (so that they wouldn't prevent the vambraced arms from being raised). Shouldering someone aside becomes a real attack.

5) Spiked Helmets. Now these are historical! Headbutts, in melee, are not all that uncommon!

6) Spiked Gauntlets. If you're going to wear gauntlets, there's no reason not to wear these. They can't be disarmed, easily, and are better than an Improved Unarmed Strike (in most cases).

Now the typical D&D armor seems to be the "spiked all over" type, which is less useful, and certainly not what you want to be caught out in the woods in ("Help! I'm stuck!") Still, if you're fighting Ropers, Giant Purple Worms, Remorhaz, or anything else with Improved Grab/Swallow Whole, then I can see it... Even if it seems a bit silly.

Col_Pladoh · Jul 10, 2005

Orius said:
Well, I'm no expert on the marketing of RPG by any stretch of the imagination, but from reading the bits on the background of the various D&D settings that was presented in Dragon 315, I got the impression that TSR spent a great deal of time during the 2e era trying to come up with the next Dragonlance. ...

...

The DL novels and modules were indeed a windfall, but the main problem at TSR after the release of 2E was loss of core audience. That is what caused the downward spiral.

Gary

Orius · Jul 10, 2005

Col_Pladoh said:
The DL novels and modules were indeed a windfall, but the main problem at TSR after the release of 2E was loss of core audience. That is what caused the downward spiral.

Yes, though from what I understand it wasn't a loss that happened all at once, but in several places over the years. There were those who first didn't bother to to move on to 2e, especially since TSR for a year or so continued to support both editions of AD&D, from what I understand. Then there were those who were disappointed by a number of mediocre 2e products and sort of trickled out of the audience. Finally there was the group that was angered about TSR's aggresive lawsuit policy, though I'd guess they were probably a small number of gamers that didn't have the impact the other two groups did.

BOZ · Jul 10, 2005

Steverooo said:
1) Spiked Steel Codpiece. This pre-athletic supporter deflects and injures an incoming enemy knee. "You knee me in the groin? Okay, take 1D6 damage, plus my STR Bonus, Orc-face!"

you win!

BOZ · Jul 10, 2005

eh?

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=139338

Col_Pladoh · Jul 10, 2005

Orius said:
Yes, though from what I understand it wasn't a loss that happened all at once, but in several places over the years. There were those who first didn't bother to to move on to 2e, especially since TSR for a year or so continued to support both editions of AD&D, from what I understand. Then there were those who were disappointed by a number of mediocre 2e products and sort of trickled out of the audience. Finally there was the group that was angered about TSR's aggresive lawsuit policy, though I'd guess they were probably a small number of gamers that didn't have the impact the other two groups did.

To the best of my knowledge and belief, the problem began with the release of 2E, as it sold at only c. 50% of the number an OAD&D core rules book had done. Plainly put, about half of the audience for AD&D was gone at a stroke.

Later flooding of the remaining audience with books that were not always of first rate value simply pared away the base audience still further. T$R chased a diminishing audience with an increased number of products, hoping to make up in quantity of different SKUs sold what was lacking in volume from a smaller number. In the publishing business that is a hopeless plan.

Gary

Col_Pladoh · Jul 10, 2005

BOZ said:
you win!

Not al all...if your PC has plate armor. The steel kneecap will bend and break spikes

Unlimbering a spiked codpiece would also be quite a trick :lol:

Cheers,
Gary

Sanguinemetaldawn · Jul 10, 2005

Spiked armor

Steverooo said:
1) Spiked Steel Codpiece. This pre-athletic supporter deflects and injures an incoming enemy knee. "You knee me in the groin? Okay, take 1D6 damage, plus my STR Bonus, Orc-face!"

Awesome!

On spiked armor...
Examine some historical scale armor if you can. Generally you will see that the lower edge of each "scale" is curved, and frequently the scale is bevelled so that the lower edge rests on the scales beneath, lifting the rest of the scale away from the backing material.

This arrangement actually requires a lot of work. Scales were individually cut from sheets of metal, in a square (main part of scale) plus triangle (lower edge of scale) shape, in 2 parallel rows, with pointed ends interlocking/meshing.

Scale armor made with flat pointed scales was faster and easier to make, but was dangerous, as the many scales acted like small knife blades, lacerating the wearer.
Thus the curved lower edge to remove the point, and bevelling to direct the lower edge into the lower scales, instead of leaving it to "radiate" outward as an exposed edge.
(This bevelling may have contributed to the "upward thrust weakness" theory of scale armor.)

This I think is a sensible backdrop for consideration of "Spiked Armor".

The instance of Rome vs Carthage at Zama is a very specialized case. You have what are essentially custom made suits of armor made specifically for that conflict, paid for by the treasury of Rome.

Clearly, this historic use lends itself to somewhat fantastic use in AD&D as a special defense against grapplers, constrictors, and the like, but the wearer of such armor would have to worry about accidental injury both to himself, and his fellows.

Col_Pladoh · Jul 10, 2005

Sanguinemetaldawn said:
...

...

This I think is a sensible backdrop for consideration of "Spiked Armor".

...

...but the wearer of such armor would have to worry about accidental injury both to himself, and his fellows.

A fine historical example in regards the scale armor.

As for spiked armor, falling down on turf or being driven into a tree or wooden structure of any sort would be tatamont to a death warrant for the wearer.

Cheers,
Gary

TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Wolv0rine

First Post

Steverooo

First Post

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Orius

Legend

BOZ

Creature Cataloguer

BOZ

Creature Cataloguer

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Sanguinemetaldawn

First Post

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

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