TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

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This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

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Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax
JoeGKushner said:
Well, it depends on how that product got there. If WoTC actively pursued Toys R Us to place it there, then yes, that's active no? As a starter boxed set, it would make sense and allow Toys R Us to decide if they ever wanted to expanded beyond that, perhaps even to the miniatures which might be a natural fit as Heroscope is also sold by them.
Sorry Amigo,

WotC pushing goods to their supply chain in no way equates to consumer advertising to enlarge the base audience, aprticularly amongst young males. The fact is that you have supplied no evidence of consumer advertising, and what I said appears valid. I say appears because someone might have evidence of a large and wide-spread consumer advertising and marketing campaign to capture new players for roleplaying. After all TSR did a lot of that...;)

Cheers,
Gary
 

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Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax
MerricB said:
G'day, Gary!

I asked Charles Ryan about this; you can find his reply here:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=153957

I hope you find it interesting.

Cheers!
Actually, I found the information rather vague :lol:

When I was at TSR and in charge of advertising and marketing, we had print, radio, and TV ads. Print ads in gaming magazines are not going to bring in new customers o0f course. We advertised in various comis books, SF magazines, and Boy's Life amongst other periodicals. the TV ads were fairly effective, I add, as were aseries of ads we did in New Yorker.

In short, I am not impressed with WotC's efforts to expand the audience for the D&D game.

Nuff said!

Gary
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Col_Pladoh said:
The TV ads were fairly effective, I add, as were aseries of ads we did in New Yorker.

Do you recall any details from the TV ads of those days? I remember the comic books, the magazines, and I've heard about the radio ads ("Morley the Wizard") from Diaglo here at ENWorld, but the TV ads I saw nary a one - were they limited to the midwest?

If anything, in my school, it was not the ads that got people playing - it was the devil-worshipping that was supposedly going on! :lol:

Oh, to be a "bad boy" game again... :)
 

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax
Henry said:
Do you recall any details from the TV ads of those days? I remember the comic books, the magazines, and I've heard about the radio ads ("Morley the Wizard") from Diaglo here at ENWorld, but the TV ads I saw nary a one - were they limited to the midwest?

If anything, in my school, it was not the ads that got people playing - it was the devil-worshipping that was supposedly going on! :lol:

Oh, to be a "bad boy" game again... :)
Heh,

And indeed the best advertising came from the sensationalist journalism and ranting attacks launched by "experts"--ban something and it will sell out in a hurry :lol:

As for the TV ads, I have a copy someone sent me. The late Dave Dimery was VP of Advertising at TSR, and he would know for sure. The best I can manage is a recollection of buys in spot markets in various states. I am sure they were not confined to the Midwest.

Cheers,
Gary
 

StupidSmurf

First Post
Col_Pladoh said:
Actually, I found the information rather vague :lol:

When I was at TSR and in charge of advertising and marketing, we had print, radio, and TV ads. Print ads in gaming magazines are not going to bring in new customers o0f course. We advertised in various comis books, SF magazines, and Boy's Life amongst other periodicals. the TV ads were fairly effective, I add, as were aseries of ads we did in New Yorker.

In short, I am not impressed with WotC's efforts to expand the audience for the D&D game.

Nuff said!

Gary


I think I see your point, Gary. What's the use of having shelf space at a, say, Toys 'R Us, if you're not also provided the mass audience with reasons WHY they should be buying the stuff? After all, there's zillions of things at Toys 'R Us, and as a rule, most people I know go to a place like that in order to pick up a SPECIFIC thing, as opposed to a "Gee, I have some free time, I guess I'll go to this toy store and brave the hordes of screaming children in order to browse around and possibly find something I might want to buy." Most parents I know (including my wife and I) don't go to a place like "Toys", as a for instance, unless we absolutely, positively HAVE to. :)
 

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax
StupidSmurf said:
I think I see your point, Gary. What's the use of having shelf space at a, say, Toys 'R Us, if you're not also provided the mass audience with reasons WHY they should be buying the stuff? After all, there's zillions of things at Toys 'R Us, and as a rule, most people I know go to a place like that in order to pick up a SPECIFIC thing, as opposed to a "Gee, I have some free time, I guess I'll go to this toy store and brave the hordes of screaming children in order to browse around and possibly find something I might want to buy." Most parents I know (including my wife and I) don't go to a place like "Toys", as a for instance, unless we absolutely, positively HAVE to. :)
You have it.

"Push" gets product onto shelves. "Pull" is the result of some sort of advertising, commercial or grassroots, word-of-mouth sort. Media hype against something results in a good deal of the latter sort of pull, but that ain't happening with D&D any more, so commercial advertising is required to call the attention of potential new customers to the prodyct.

Of course having large displays in stores results in some number of impulse purchases, provided the product is well presented. The new D&D box is that, IMO. However, to get a steady stream of new customers steady advertising to the desired audience is a must. That should be evident from the number of cmmercials with which we are bombarded everywhere--especially TV and radio.

Cheers,
Gary
 

JoeGKushner

First Post
Col_Pladoh said:
You have it.

"Push" gets product onto shelves. "Pull" is the result of some sort of advertising, commercial or grassroots, word-of-mouth sort. Media hype against something results in a good deal of the latter sort of pull, but that ain't happening with D&D any more, so commercial advertising is required to call the attention of potential new customers to the prodyct.

Of course having large displays in stores results in some number of impulse purchases, provided the product is well presented. The new D&D box is that, IMO. However, to get a steady stream of new customers steady advertising to the desired audience is a must. That should be evident from the number of cmmercials with which we are bombarded everywhere--especially TV and radio.

Cheers,
Gary

Interesting. What do you feel that a store's duties are then? One of the reasons people say that the hobby is dying is massively infeffectivly run stores.

On the other hand, electronic stores, like Amazon, do a damn fine job of trying to match their inventory to you're previous selections and preferences.

Do you think that the places selling goods, including D&D, have to make this pull effort happen or does it all have to happen at the "manufacturing" end?
 

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax
JoeGKushner said:
Interesting. What do you feel that a store's duties are then? One of the reasons people say that the hobby is dying is massively infeffectivly run stores.
That is quite unfair to stores, including specialist game shops.

On the other hand, electronic stores, like Amazon, do a damn fine job of trying to match their inventory to you're previous selections and preferences.
True, they are good at moving merchadise that someone goes on line to view. No problem with electronic memory of customers and their previous purchases;)

Do you think that the places selling goods, including D&D, have to make this pull effort happen or does it all have to happen at the "manufacturing" end?
FLGS surely must do their best to offer friendly service from knowledgeable staff, make customers feel welcome, and well-served. Having a place to play games and placng special orders are a part of that.

Most stores have no interest in doing more than taking customers' cash for goods that buyers pull off shelves and take to the checkout counter. Not a few game shops are of that bent. That's why they love hot items, reveled in the popularity of CCGs. No effort, just ring up sales ;)

That said, the publishers and manufactures are the ones responsible for creating consumer pull for goods. That is why we see so much advertising--to get customers into stores and asking for certain brand name products. Mass market publishers even do it when they have a big-name book they want to market and make a million-seller.

Excellent products will have word of mouth pull for a time, classics will retain it for a protracted period with some relatively minor advertising to remind consumers. Examples of word of mouth pull include D&D, Settlers of Catan, and recently Ticket to Ride. the standard family games with protracted word of mouth pull are Clue and Monopoly and a few others. The D&D game in a boxed version would fall into the latter category save for the fact that it requires a specialist, the DM, to make it run properly. That's why it needs more advertising push to prospective consumers, get potential DMs to pick it up and decide they like it. Then the new DMs create word of mouth pull for the product.

Ads online are generally a "preaching to the choir" activity as far as D&D is concerned. This isn't so for the other RPGs that lack the name recognition and participant base that D&D has.

Only a pubisher with sales such as WotC has can affort to do much consumer advertising other than online.

Life ain't easy for RPG publishers :confused:

Cheers,
Gary
 

StupidSmurf

First Post
So then, it sounds like the solutions would be:

1. On the FLGS side, have people behind the counter who are willing to expand at least some effort at promoting stuff in a favorable light, as opposed to have some brain-dead yutz who just wants to sit there on his duff and ring up a sale, but can't tell you the difference between Paranoia and Call of Cthulhu.

2. On the gaming company side, keep an eye on ways to propagate the hobby, perhaps making it more accessible without diluting the original product.

3. Also on the gaming company side, coming up with products that don't inhale air sharply helps too! ;)

4. Again on the gaming company side, work with FLGS and also local gaming groups in the orbit of said FLGS's, to promote the products.

5. On the gamer's side, we need to keep an eye out to recruit more people into the hobby. For those of us who reproduced, make it a generational thing ;)

Have I missed anything?

I also have a few opinions I've formulated about this, but they're still sort of swirling around in my head, not quite taking shape yet. Maybe later.... :)
 

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