TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh said:

Well sure,

But what you set forth is actually quite different from the original scheme, a campaign in which the PCs aim was to slay deities, not what ordnary yokels might consider as such

Fantasy deities create things, move mountains, sink continents, and are generally quite untouchable by mortals. even the Genie of the Lamp is quite unkillable, albeit he can be duped

Cheers,
Gary

Click to expand...

Yep. What had my wheels turning is the fact that some players are attracted to an adventure where they can say they knocked off a god. When a ref is lowering the power of a deity to the point that the party can kill the villian, he effectively makes the deity mortal. But the power-gaming players don't mind that fact, since what they really wanted was to have 'bragging rights' about their character. Players that prefer their games more reality-based will probably roll their eyes.

I'm just wondering if an adventure could be made by turning this idea on its head. Instead of taking a god and depowering him so a mortal can kill him, why not take a mortal villian and have NPCs hype him up so much that said villian is believed to be a god. Now the power-gamers can have their bragging rights, while other gamers enjoy the irony when they realize their arch-nemesis isn't a deity after all. Perhaps the arch-nemesis even had religious followers to better give a sense of false invulnerability. Maybe the clerics of this religion didn't have spells, but instead carried wands and rings that simulated minor clerical powers.

This is all just brainstorming, as I'm trying to rip apart the elements that make 'god-killing' games fun for some and better fit it to the kind of plot-twist stories I enjoy.

Of course, the only reason the wheels are turning is in consideration of making a campaign where you can satisfy both kinds of fantasy RPG fans. Then again, you could target both kinds of fans and come out alienating both...

Deuce Traveler said:

...

This is all just brainstorming, as I'm trying to rip apart the elements that make 'god-killing' games fun for some and better fit it to the kind of plot-twist stories I enjoy.

Of course, the only reason the wheels are turning is in consideration of making a campaign where you can satisfy both kinds of fantasy RPG fans. Then again, you could target both kinds of fans and come out alienating both...

Click to expand...

That is a good idea, making a super-villian that power gamers can gloat over slayng while at the same time keeping the campaign's true deities sacrosanct.

Actually, sending a potent nether world entity backtoits own plane gives the accomplishing party some cnsiderable degree of bragging rights.

As an aside, while I have my power gaming moments, I have never had the hubris to assume any of my PCs could face a deity, not did I ever dsire to have one do so.

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh said:

That is a good idea, making a super-villian that power gamers can gloat over slayng while at the same time keeping the campaign's true deities sacrosanct.

Actually, sending a potent nether world entity backtoits own plane gives the accomplishing party some cnsiderable degree of bragging rights.

As an aside, while I have my power gaming moments, I have never had the hubris to assume any of my PCs could face a deity, not did I ever dsire to have one do so.

Cheers,
Gary

Click to expand...

As a last aside, I now keep having that scene from Ghostbusters playing in my head.

"Ray, the next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

Deuce Traveler said:

As a last aside, I now keep having that scene from Ghostbusters playing in my head.

"Ray, the next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

Click to expand...

I'll settle for being the Key Master...


Gary

Deuce Traveler said:

I think a party could have an interesting 'god-killing' game, but the immortal's status would have to be redefined. Such as when Conan would meet alien beings that the locals would worship as gods, and prove them wrong by striking it down in a barbaric rage. If ran properly, the DM can draw up an adventure with an ageless creature that has fanatical followers and plans to take over the world. Its powers are so great that the followers believe it to be a god, but it can be harmed and even killed with the right weaponry.

Click to expand...

I'm having fun with a rakshasa whose plotting includes creating a servitor race and taking over villages . . . the PC's are about to run him out of town, but he's too tough for them to kill, since they don't know what he is. Immortal shapechanger with magical powers = cool Boss Monster.

JohnRTroy said:

As an aside--I actually just purchased the ToEE computer game after playing the demo and seeing how accurate it was to the modules, save for the update in the game system. Looking forward to that--I'll actually have to avoid digging out my old module so I don't cheat.

Click to expand...

No kidding. It's quite cool, and very close to being accurate about the adventure (as I remember it) and 3.0 rules. I realized I had a bit of an advantage, even though I never played nor ran the original, when I instantly took up the town drunk on his off to join my party, whereas a friend who hadn't grown up with it turned the guy down as being a useless drunk.

Col_Pladoh said:

Being far too busy at the time to oversee the project, and as Brian Blume thought Dave's work great, I gritted my teeth and went on.

Click to expand...

Well, it was good enough that the idea of a giant mechanical, steam-powered spider ship as a Boss-Monster/Boss-Monster conveyance was ripped off for the movie "Wild Wild West".

And good enough that the idea of giant spider goddess was shown as the true power behind the throne in Rome in an episode of South Park (right after a scene from the ~1980 Activision game "Pitfall").

I guess that's not necessarily very "good", but it's certainly an image that stuck in minds of folk enough that it's worth it to rip it off.

haakon1 said:

No kidding. It's quite cool, and very close to being accurate about the adventure (as I remember it) and 3.0 rules. I realized I had a bit of an advantage, even though I never played nor ran the original, when I instantly took up the town drunk on his off to join my party, whereas a friend who hadn't grown up with it turned the guy down as being a useless drunk.

Click to expand...

The chief designer did check with me about his interpretations of the paper module for the electronic game one, and I found he certainly had a firm grasp of what was intended.

Cheers,
Gary

haakon1 said:

Well, it was good enough that the idea of a giant mechanical, steam-powered spider ship as a Boss-Monster/Boss-Monster conveyance was ripped off for the movie "Wild Wild West".

And good enough that the idea of giant spider goddess was shown as the true power behind the throne in Rome in an episode of South Park (right after a scene from the ~1980 Activision game "Pitfall").

I guess that's not necessarily very "good", but it's certainly an image that stuck in minds of folk enough that it's worth it to rip it off.

Click to expand...

I prefer something more akin to a mix of Lovecraft and Merritt when presenting such darl things, not hokey science or slapstick ala Wild, Wild West

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh said:

That is a good idea, making a super-villian that power gamers can gloat over slayng while at the same time keeping the campaign's true deities sacrosanct.

Click to expand...

Or you could kill off "semi-deities", like demon lords or maybe even a hero god . . .

In my campaign, once in a while hero gods exist, somewhere the realms of mortal and immortal, trying to get enough worshipping power to make to demigodhood. I had fun with an old, good one, who was down to one priest and one shrine . . . the PC's were hired to recover his stolen holy "artefact" (not really) taken by rival monks.