TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Philotomy Jurament · Jul 8, 2006

ColonelHardisson said:
Same here. I could forgive [Castle Greyhawk] for that, but after waiting for a long time, it was so disappointing to find it wasn't a "real" Castle Greyhawk module that it still leaves a sour taste.

I HATED that module. I was overseas when it came out, but I special-ordered it based on the title. When it arrived, I started reading and couldn't believe it. They'd turned Castle Greyhawk, the premier dungeon of the setting, into a joke. Now, I have nothing against humorous dungeons, but to have a whole thing be a joke was too much. I suppose I was expecting something else, so the disappointment was intense. In any case, between Castle Greyhawk and modules like "Puppets," "Childs Play," and "Gargoyle" it seemed to me that TSR was sending a pretty un-subtle message, which was "Greyhawk is a joke."

Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know. I do know that I quit buying TSR's Greyhawk material.

I'd be careful of saying that around the OSRIC loyal. Some of them seem to feel C&C is not a good alternative to AD&D, and only OSRIC will do to satisfy them...I also find C&C to be a really nice addition to the spectrum of games with their roots in D&D.

I'm all for OSRIC so I can use OSRIC-compatible materials in my C&C game.

Actually, I doubt many people will play "OSRIC" -- AD&D faithful will probably continue to play "AD&D" using OSRIC-compatible supplements. I suppose someone could play "OSRIC" if he didn't have the AD&D rulebooks, though.

Col_Pladoh · Jul 8, 2006

Philotomy Jurament said:
I HATED that module. I was overseas when it came out, but I special-ordered it based on the title. When it arrived, I started reading and couldn't believe it. They'd turned Castle Greyhawk, the premier dungeon of the setting, into a joke. Now, I have nothing against humorous dungeons, but to have a whole thing be a joke was too much. I suppose I was expecting something else, so the disappointment was intense. In any case, between Castle Greyhawk and modules like "Puppets," "Childs Play," and "Gargoyle" it seemed to me that TSR was sending a pretty un-subtle message, which was "Greyhawk is a joke."

Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know. I do know that I quit buying TSR's Greyhawk material.

I'm all for OSRIC so I can use OSRIC-compatible materials in my C&C game. Actually, I doubt many people will play "OSRIC" -- AD&D faithful will probably continue to play "AD&D" using OSRIC-compatible supplements. I suppose someone could play "OSRIC" if he didn't have the AD&D rulebooks, though.

What can I say?

:heh:

Gary

Philotomy Jurament · Jul 9, 2006

Col_Pladoh said:
What can I say?

Yeah. Sorry...had to rant.

In any case, I'm very glad that you (and Rob) are putting out Castle Zagyg. Yggsburgh is great, and I'm eagerly awaiting the rest of the series (and supporting modules).

Treebore · Jul 9, 2006

My Troll order hasn't arrived yet. So no LA: Essentials, no EGGsburgh, no World Builder, no second copy of M&T, and No Hall of Many Planes. Bummer!

ColonelHardisson · Jul 9, 2006

Philotomy Jurament said:
Now, I have nothing against humorous dungeons, but to have a whole thing be a joke was too much.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy humor in games also, including entire adventures that are "jokes," for lack of a better term. Dungeonland and Beyond the Magic Mirror are classics of their type. I like a lot of the humor HackMaster injected into both the game and the classic modules. It's just that Castle Greyhawk was supposed to be the ne plus ultra of dungeon crawls, based on rumor, speculation, and the glimpses Gary gave us in Dragon and the DMG. To me, making it a humor-based adventure was tantamount to making Temple of Elemental Evil a "joke" module. TSR's Castle Greyhawk was a classic "WTF?" moment in RPG history.

Philotomy Jurament · Jul 9, 2006

ColonelHardisson said:
It's just that Castle Greyhawk was supposed to be the ne plus ultra of dungeon crawls, based on rumor, speculation, and the glimpses Gary gave us in Dragon and the DMG. To me, making it a humor-based adventure was tantamount to making Temple of Elemental Evil a "joke" module. TSR's Castle Greyhawk was a classic "WTF?" moment in RPG history.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about it. When I've mentioned it, before, I tended to get "lighten up" comments.

Elfdart · Jul 9, 2006

Colonel, did you ever run a "reverse" dungeon where the players had to play the monsters and the DM played the band of adventurers who ruthlessly hunted them down, invaded their lair, killed them and took their treasure?

I'm about to do just that to my group in a mini-campaign. Part One will be a hobgoblin chieftain, a bugbear, a shaman, a witchdoctor and assorted groups of goblinkind bowmen, slingers, and footmen -all given the goal of taking a tower manned by human men-at-arms.

Part two is where the typical band of adventurers comes to do to the goblinoids well, what they usually do. The monsters who kill the most of their enemies, loot the most from their victims and actually survive the assault from the human and demi-human party win the game. Yes, this will encourage the monsters to stab one another in the back as well as their foes.

One part of this is a change of pace. Instead of cooperation we have cutthroat competition. The other is for my own education as a DM, since I plan to take note of any clever defenses the players use against the forces of Good and keep them for future reference for this group and others. I've learned some of my best stuff from players, who always come up with things even the smartest DMs never thought of. Turnabout is fair play, after all.

Orius · Jul 9, 2006

Whoa...I was so used to the very long part IX thread that having Part X locked out and achived caught me by surprise!

Anyway following up:

I hate the "motorcycle helmet law" approach WOTC is taking here. Adventuring means danger, a chance to get killed without bubble-wrap over all the sharp corners in the dungeon, and DMing means creativity and judgment. By and large, D&D players are smart enough that we don't need child safety locks. It almost seems like they're afraid to get sued if a character is killed. I want the Holodeck Safety Protocols off.

I think there's something some of you long time gamers might be missing here, though. I think WotC is probably aiming a lot of this advice they have on their website for people who are novice players and DMs. One of the purposes of things such as Challenge Ratings, wealth guidelines and so on is to give novice DM a sort of benchmark for how powerful things can be. This way, they don't throw an opponent at a party that wipes them out unexpectedly or give them exceptionally powerful magic items that make the game too easy. We sometimes sit back and complain how they're dumbing the game down while forgetting that novice players and DMs may not be able to judge these things as well as we can.

Erekose · Jul 9, 2006

Col_Pladoh said:
. . . Edit . . . For an example of what I would have done regarding skills in a revsied addition of AD&D, check out the C&C game's skills, for I added those to the rules when I wrote the Castle Zagyg, Yggsburgh book a couple of years or so back. These are skill bundles also, can be purchased with XPs, and for NPCs some confer levels in class as well as conveying skills.

Cheers,
Gary

That's great news Gary!

I bought the Castle Zagyg, Yggsburgh book in the recent Troll Lords sale.

Now just waiting the slow haul that is the mail service from the USA to the UK!!!

Col_Pladoh · Jul 9, 2006

Philotomy Jurament said:
Yeah. Sorry...had to rant.

In any case, I'm very glad that you (and Rob) are putting out Castle Zagyg. Yggsburgh is great, and I'm eagerly awaiting the rest of the series (and supporting modules).

Not a problem here. I actually made a tresponse at the direction of the cameraman that was shooting my interview for the Turner gaming website, after he got a shot of the EN World header, had me scroll down.

Hope that proves to be some good promo for here, as the interview is promarily about the D&D game..

Cheers,
Gary

TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Philotomy Jurament

First Post

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Philotomy Jurament

First Post

Treebore

First Post

ColonelHardisson

What? Me Worry?

Philotomy Jurament

First Post

Elfdart

Banned

Orius

Legend

Erekose

Eternal Champion

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

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