TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh · Feb 20, 2007

khyron1144 said:
Another question for you Gary (Again, I hope it isn't something that has been asked before):

In the early version of the Dungeoncraft column in Dragon magazine (might have been around when they got you to start writing the Up on A Soap Box series again or a year or month or two before), the writer of this column suggested that DMs design a setting that can be adventured in rather than a storyline or adventure that might have some good scenery along the way.

What do you think of this aproach to homebrew world design/ campaign creation?

A short answer is good if it looks too essay questionish.

Thanks much. The folks over on WotC's boards are debating the word Gygaxian again.

Heh,

That is a very good question in my view, and one I will answer as fully as necessary to make my opinion abundantly clear. The fact is that I can do it in short order.

RPGs are games, not stories told by the GM. Stories might develop from play, but setting forth a complex storyline that the characters must needs follow in order to succeed, and suit the hubris of the frustrated novelist cum GM, is right out. RPG campaigns and novels are polar opposits. That should be self evident, Suffice to say that the participants should not be playing scripted characters following the course set forth by the GM's "storyline."

A bit of backstory to ground the players in the setting and give them an idea of what is currently happening is sufficient direction. From there on it must be up to them.

Cheers,
Gary

robertsconley · Feb 20, 2007

khyron1144 said:
Thanks much. The folks over on WotC's boards are debating the word Gygaxian again.

Reading that reminded me of how much time has passed since I started this hobby of mine. Also I think is the source of problem over defining what Gygaxian is. From what I remember there were a variety of playing styles then as there were now.

I know one style from hardcore wargamers (PanzerBlitz, 1776, Avalon Hill, SPI, and all that) was that we played all out against each other. The game was fun I knew was playing against opponents that were doing their level best to push me off cemetary ridge, or force their way through my forces at Milita Pass.

This definitely carried over to role-playing games where DM setup killer dungeons. The best DMs followed a unwritten code that with smarts and wits things can be figured out. Although there were times when faced with four levers you just had to roll a d4 and hope for the best.

I am not particularly good at creating puzzles nor enjoy doing so. My own DM style turned toward creating vast vistas for players to explore and make their mark upon. At first I used Greyhawk and then switched to Wilderlands of High Fantasy by Judges Guild (saved me a ton of time in prep work). My wargame roots showed in the end game. My end of campaign plot nearly always involved the players building a castle/town/guild.

Rob Conley

Col_Pladoh · Feb 20, 2007

Joe125 said:
Gary,

Basic D&D. I was running players through the caves of chaos and one of the PCs turned a Wight. The wight went away down the tunnel to a closed door and the PC cleric pursued. Then he wanted to attack the monster. Should the Wight at this point suddenly fight back, given that it has been approached after having been Turned?

-David.

The wight is fleeing to escape the cleric. If it is still fleeing thus and can pass through the door, it will do so. If it can not, then it will turn and attack the cleric.

Cheers,
Gary

Col_Pladoh · Feb 20, 2007

robertsconley said:
Reading that reminded me of how much time has passed since I started this hobby of mine. Also I think is the source of problem over defining what Gygaxian is. From what I remember there were a variety of playing styles then as there were now.

I know one style from hardcore wargamers (PanzerBlitz, 1776, Avalon Hill, SPI, and all that) was that we played all out against each other. The game was fun I knew was playing against opponents that were doing their level best to push me off cemetary ridge, or force their way through my forces at Milita Pass.

This definitely carried over to role-playing games where DM setup killer dungeons. The best DMs followed a unwritten code that with smarts and wits things can be figured out. Although there were times when faced with four levers you just had to roll a d4 and hope for the best.

I am not particularly good at creating puzzles nor enjoy doing so. My own DM style turned toward creating vast vistas for players to explore and make their mark upon. At first I used Greyhawk and then switched to Wilderlands of High Fantasy by Judges Guild (saved me a ton of time in prep work). My wargame roots showed in the end game. My end of campaign plot nearly always involved the players building a castle/town/guild.

Rob Conley

The whiners claiming my dungeons are "killer" are likely not very clever in theit play. Perhaps they prefer play-acting to thinking and assuming an heroic persona bent on action and adventure.

That all of the dungeons I designed were play-tested, and the play-test groups had a high survival rate gives the lie to assertions to the contrary. The only dungeon I designed to be nearly impossible to defeat was the Tomb of Horrors. Failure to survive the others stems from bad luck, or more probably, bad dungeoneering skills.

Those that complain about real challenges might be better off playing Candyland with their little sister

Cheers,
Gary

robertsconley · Feb 20, 2007

My reference to killer Dungeons was meant in the idea that Dungeon will kill you if you made a mistake. Whether it was unfair, illogical, or unreasonable was a separate issue. I played in plenty of homebrew killer dungeons that were fair (and deadly).

Referring back to four levers and roll a d4, I guess what separated the 'good' killer dungeon from the 'bad' version is whether the DM ran them consistently. Or another way of putting it whether DM stuck with what he written and prepared or did he change things on the fly to 'get' me.

It hard to define and I guess it will alway be one of things that you just know when you experience it whether it was fair or not.

Col_Pladoh said:
Those that complain about real challenges might be better off playing Candyland with their little sister

Cheers,
Gary

Certainly I grown in maturity over the years (I hope) but to tell the truth but gut instinct is summed up with the above statement ;-) My own wrinkle is that along with the table top I did a lot of live-action roleplaying (NERO).

"When I started, we ran from the goblins, slept in the woods and we LIKED it. And now you are worried about McDonalds and a warm bed. Get you candy butt off the site!.

Jdvn1 · Feb 20, 2007

Col_Pladoh said:
Of the more recent versions of the game I have played only 3E. It is rules intensive, removes the "Master" from Dungeon Master, has no archetypes left, encourages the players to compete for dominance, devalued magic items, and substitutes statutes in the rules for innovation.

That's the way I see it.

Cheers,
Gary

I suppose since my experience with OD&D is effectively nonexistant, I'll have to wait for the essay. My games typically don't have competition between players, nor do I feel I'm not the "Master" of my game.

Col_Pladoh · Feb 20, 2007

Jdvn1 said:
I suppose since my experience with OD&D is effectively nonexistant, I'll have to wait for the essay. My games typically don't have competition between players, nor do I feel I'm not the "Master" of my game.

As I have no particular interest in convoncing any gamer about the superiority of any former version of the D&D game, do not hold your breath awaiting more on that subject.

As for what you have experienced, there are always exceptions. That's what makes for a varied marketplace.

Cheers,
Gary

haakon1 · Feb 20, 2007

Jdvn1 said:
My games typically don't have competition between players

Nor do mine. One of the things I like best about D&D is the comraderie of brothers in arms overcoming tough obstacles through cooperative and inventive derring-do -- or fighting to their last breath, backs to each other, swords to the on-rushing hordes!

It's doesn't matter which edition, and I assume it would work for any similar fantasy RPG.

Gary's original idea is the best team game ever, whether you use Australian-rules, Canadian-rules, rugby-rules, or whatever variant you choose.

Col_Pladoh · Feb 20, 2007

haakon1 said:
Nor do mine. One of the things I like best about D&D is the comraderie of brothers in arms overcoming tough obstacles through cooperative and inventive derring-do -- or fighting to their last breath, backs to each other, swords to the on-rushing hordes!

It's doesn't matter which edition, and I assume it would work for any similar fantasy RPG.

Gary's original idea is the best team game ever, whether you use Australian-rules, Canadian-rules, rugby-rules, or whatever variant you choose.

Hmmm...

What are Epic Level PCs all about?

Cheers,
Gary

Storm Raven · Feb 20, 2007

haakon1 said:
Nor do mine.

Mine don't either. In fact, my games exhibit none of the characterstics the Col seems to attribute to 3e, at least not any more so than any other edition of D&D has. I find, for example, that I need to tone down magic items when converting from 1e modules and published adventures from Dragon to 3e, so that they reflect a treasure distribution in line with the 3e "feel"; and I don't see how providing less magic is cheapening magic.

In my experience, it is the players and the DM who dictate things like whether there is player competition for dominance (and in counterpoint to the idea that this developed via 3e, I point to the Col's relatively recent article in Dragon concerning the jeweled man, and how players couldn't catch him because they refused to share information and work together, if that isn't competition for dominance, I'm not sure what is), rule-lawyering, weak DMs and so on, and not the edition. If a player is a rules-lawyering jerk, he will be so regardless of edition. If a DM is too weak to keep control of his own campaign, he will be so regardless of edition. It is a personality thing, not a edition thing.

TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

robertsconley

Adventurer

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

robertsconley

Adventurer

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

haakon1

Hero

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax

Storm Raven

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