TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

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This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

Gary_Gygax_Gen_Con_2007.jpg
 
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BOZ

Creature Cataloguer
Col_Pladoh said:
Hmmm...

What are Epic Level PCs all about?

Cheers,
Gary

in 3rd edition parlance, they are essentially any PC over 20th level (or does it start at 20th, i forget?)

if a DM handles them properly, they can be every bit as fun as lower-level PCs. by that time, a PC has aquired quite a bit of power, magic, and other resources, which allows them to overcome common obstacles more easily and do all sorts of things that lower-level PCs simply can't do, or at least do well. of course, any DM worth his salt will throw in traps, challenges, and especially monsters and NPCs of a suitable challenge level - epic level PCs are just as mortal as any other PC, as i have found out through experience. :) of course, being that high in level, getting a resurrection spell is a lot less of a challenge than it otherwise might be...

of course, as i said, a DM must handle the situation properly, or otherwise things just get too ridiculous. that sort of high-level play can be fun for a short time, but it's not the sort of thing i'd want to focus on for a long time.
 

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Storm Raven

First Post
Col_Pladoh said:
Only WotC can estimate the actual number based on sales of the work, Imperical evidence is useless, as not 5% of the new D&D game audience posts here or on any other website ;)

Well, I doubt if even sales of the Epic Level Handbook are any real indicator of how many campaigns involve epic level characters. The ELH isn't even actually technically necessary to play a campaign involving epic characters - just enough is given in sources like the FRCS to run such games without that book. On the other hand, actual games invovling such high level characters seem absurdly rare. Not just on ENWorld, but other gaming websites seem to have a dearth of games involving them. On a more personal level, I know of zero people who even own the ELH, let alone who have run or played in games at that power level.

It is impossible to determine for certain, but the evidence from places like ENWorld and my own experience lead me to believe that actual epic level games are vanishingly rare. Sure, there are certainly some people playing such campaigns, but from Dragon letters to the editor and forum submissions in the early 80s, people were playing god-killing characters who had claimed Mjolnir, Stormbringer and the Aegis back then too.

My statements are based on the the rule books published, the contents of same, ans what I have heard imperically :lol:

That's a dangerous set of assumptions. If one had looked at 1e in 1984 or thereabouts as written, one would have thought it to be an almost unplayable mass of confusing and difficult rules. Sure, few people played the game that way (discarding things like the unarmed combat rules and a host of other overly complicated elements), but as written, they were there making the game look intensely un-user-friendly, overcomplicated, and a haven for rules-lawyers (Knights of the Dinner Table isn't lampooning older editions of D&D by having them be plagued by a rules-lawyer like Brian by accident).

If, at the same time, one had based their opinion on what they "heard empirically" about the game (leaving aside the ill-founded and silly "satanic" attacks made by the totally misinformed), one might have thought the game to be populated by power-gaming characters who summoned fleets of Star Destroyers and legions of AT-ATs to overrun Greyhawk and thought nothing of using a push spell to kill Thor and seize Mjolnir. One might have thought 75 foot tall mutant orcs were a regular element in the game. Looking through the published modules available at the time, one might have thought that magic items were as common as acorns and pine cones.
 
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Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
John Drake said:
I guess, but I don't really see how making things tougher or have more hit dice or damage creates furhter avenues for creativity.
Well, it's the type of encounters you come across. As a PC facing a horde, you might have to stand your ground among a bunch of other people. As an epic PC facing a horde, you might have to stand your ground while at the same time protecting the lives of citizens as they run away.

So you have to use your resources to not only kill baddies but to also control the battlefield, try to influence where they move (stop them from going to certain places or certain directions), or use resources to directly stop enemy casters' spells.
John Drake said:
I find PC's at lower levels, limited resources etc to be ample resource for RPG's. Imho, epic for me is the Mentzer Immortal route: exciting, cerebral, and extremely thought provoking, from my experience
I also like that route (actually, even in non-epic games), but you don't have to toss combat out of the window either.
 

Col_Pladoh said:
Hmmm...

What are Epic Level PCs all about?

Well, I had one character that surviving all the way through G123D123Q1. He was 21st level (human cleric of Heimdall) when he got home.

And what did he do then? Retire and become an NPC.

I still haul him out once in a while as an NPC. He's currently living in Thornward Castle, helping in the war effort. You see, my Bissel was invaded by Ket, which is secretly allied with Iuz, who's funding their Uli and Perrenlander mercenaries and funneling in goblinoid and giant mercenaries too. On the other side are the Border Companies, Bisselite feudal knights & rabble militia, the Knights of the Watch, and the Brotherhood of the Sword (the people who run Gran March, in my installation of Greyhawk).

To the PC's, he's just some foreign dude (native language: Cold Tongue) in chainmail who hangs around in a big hospital ward with a fancy multi-colored lamp, healing the war wounded. I'm sure NOBODY here can guess what lamp that is. ;) They're also suspicious because he has two lizardmen acolytes working for him (he always wanted to convert some lizardmen, and in his years of retirement, I figured he somehow found a very few who were ready for Heimdall's call). :lol:
 

Jdvn1 said:
Well, I've recently bought some of the early modules (B2, B3, S2, and X1, unless I've gotten my codes mixed up), with the hope that running them and merely converting the rules would convey at least a similar feel to OD&D. Kind of an OD&D compromise is what I'm going for. I just want to make sure that the proper feel is being upheld.

BTW, I think people mean the 1974 game (from booklets) by OD&D. B2 and B3 are for Basic D&D, from the later 1970s, and S2 and X1 are AD&D (starting in I believe 1978 or so). Basic D&D modules could be used with AD&D without changes (at least I did that with B2).

OD&D didn't really have adventure modules, though the Temple of the Frog in the Blackmoor supplement was a short version of one. Pretty cool too, with a Dr. Who meets D&D feel, IMHO.
 

Storm Raven said:
(Knights of the Dinner Table isn't lampooning older editions of D&D by having them be plagued by a rules-lawyer like Brian by accident).

I don't think they are edition or even game specific. They've had Western and I believe space adventures, a vampire campaign, and even did some LARP.

That said, Colonel, does Hackmaster amuse you, or not?

I enjoyed reading through "Little Keep on the Borderlands", and I love their illustrations, but I'd never actually run it.
 

Jdvn1

Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
haakon1 said:
BTW, I think people mean the 1974 game (from booklets) by OD&D. B2 and B3 are for Basic D&D, from the later 1970s, and S2 and X1 are AD&D (starting in I believe 1978 or so). Basic D&D modules could be used with AD&D without changes (at least I did that with B2).

OD&D didn't really have adventure modules, though the Temple of the Frog in the Blackmoor supplement was a short version of one. Pretty cool too, with a Dr. Who meets D&D feel, IMHO.
Is it obvious I'm still learning about earlier versions of the game? I started with 3e!

Thanks! :D
 

Storm Raven

First Post
haakon1 said:
I don't think they are edition or even game specific. They've had Western and I believe space adventures, a vampire campaign, and even did some LARP.

Sure, they've branched out. But at its core, the comic focuses on Hackmaster - and from reading the strips, that game appears primarily to be a satirized version of older editions of AD&D. It isn't exact, of course, and many things have been exaggerated for humor value, but it is still recognizably 1e AD&D/OD&D to large extent.

Also, it seems to me that the owner of Hard 8 games isn't named "Gary Jackson" by accident.
 

Ardenian

First Post
great to see you interacting with the current gamer community Gary... i'm a n00b here so if this is the norm - it's great. If it's not the norm - it should be.

[a]
 

Col_Pladoh

Gary Gygax
Jdvn1 said:
Well, I've recently bought some of the early modules (B2, B3, S2, and X1, unless I've gotten my codes mixed up), with the hope that running them and merely converting the rules would convey at least a similar feel to OD&D. Kind of an OD&D compromise is what I'm going for. I just want to make sure that the proper feel is being upheld.
To get the feeling of the original game I suggest that if possible you play them unconverted. Changing rules pretty well assures that the original spirit will be lost.

Cheers,
Gary
 

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