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Sunday, 12th December, 2010, 09:06 PM #601
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)
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Monday, 13th December, 2010, 01:31 AM #602
PC, I was actually commenting on all of the pictures in the epic level handbook. It shows all of the iconic characters (even the PrC ones) but with "epic" gear. I know they had to show the difference since they were using a visual medium, but some of the images were jarring and absurd- most notably, the flaming weapon used by the penultimate sneak. I was thinking of a contrast, where most of your party continues with their comfy peasant clothes, neat, maybe plain but functional equipment with a few personal touches; feathered shield, holy symbols, realistic personal flair. I then remembered Dranko having a helmet of glory(?) in all it's obnoxious, jewel-encrusted splendour. I giggled for a minute and wondered what Abernathy's company would look like, decked out all "epic". I was, admittedly, not bothering to be rational at the time
For Dranko's eternal loss of recognition; I've found that D&D is about overcoming hindrances. That Dranko just can't fix it, rather than needs a lot of effort, is jarring. I'm looking at it in the wrong light, I know. It's bittersweet, and is supposed to evoke this kind of empathy, or the sacrifice was meaningless. I was just putting some thought into the how of going about it, because for me knowing that even going through all these otherwise-legitimate steps to fix something won't work has more impact than just "there is no way". I asked fully expecting you guys to have thought through and refuted the idea already.
Maybe that's my issue? I think in mechanics. It's an extra layer of distance between me and the game world. As long as that's there, I won't be able to have a game like this...
And apparently, "geeking" is not a word, but Geelong is. Thank you, auto correct.
Monday, 13th December, 2010, 05:21 PM #603
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
I don't object to disintegrate so much because (1) you have to hit with it and (2) the target has to fail a Fort save and (3) you still have to roll those damage dice.
I guess what I was referring to is the contrast between this fight, which was cool (and did involve a few save-or-die's) and something like the following fight, in which mass save-or-die's wiped the floor.
(And, apologies for quoting from another Story Hour, but this really is the perfect example.)
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Monday, 13th December, 2010, 06:18 PM #604
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
Nice post Joshua.
While Mostin's actions are certainly epic in every sense of the word, and while this question would, on the face of it, seem like madness in reference to Sepulchrave's campaign, I have to ask myself: would I enjoy playing in a campaign like that?
For me it goes right back to the recent discussion on very high-level play. With that much power at your disposal, and an unwavering willingness to use it against your foes, doesn't the campaign just degenerate into -for-tat exchanges of obscenely powerful magic, one after another until the inevitable day when you choose the wrong spell or, simply, fail the wrong save?
That's a knife-edge I wouldn't want to walk every single session. It's illuminating to hear about the unspoken agreements in Sagiro's game which reflect upon it.
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Monday, 13th December, 2010, 06:39 PM #605
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
As a DM who has sometimes had players having the same responses that Sagiro mentioned above, this discussion has been really interesting for me.
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Tuesday, 14th December, 2010, 03:24 AM #606
Guide (Lvl 11)
FWIW, that trick wouldn't actually work, at least not in 3.5e -- spells you cast with a duration of instantaneous can't hurt anyone else. You can summon, you can dump a bunch of delayed spells -- but there was no mention of Delay Spell.
The scene in Sep's game might've been 3.0 rules, though. Of course, the PCs are way beyond normal power levels -- Mostin apparently has Int 40 at that point.
(Me, I'd have switched to Mutants & Masterminds or FATE or something a zillion levels ago. )
- Bob Huss
[H]e's dead and poisoned and possibly insane on another plane. It's a very stylish death, but a definitive one. - Piratecat
Tuesday, 14th December, 2010, 06:17 PM #607
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
Really, it's for Piratecat to resolve how he sees fit, or to live with.
And if you think about it, the closest thing the party has ever had to a straight hero was One Certain Step, the NPC. I'd also say Grey Wolf has a kind of heroic cast -- quiet and good with both a sword and a spell. And Tor Bladebearer and Kay fit the hero mold, but they're ancient history. That's it. Morningstar's just a professional, Aravis is an intellectual, Ernie and Kibi are likeable in a hobbit-sense but not how you usually think of world-savers. Flicker is Flicker.
Tuesday, 14th December, 2010, 07:33 PM #608
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
And "geelong" on google and wikipedia only turns up a city in Australia. So what's it mean?
Tuesday, 14th December, 2010, 10:32 PM #609
For me, and me alone, my feeling is that you need to be playing a game to consider it a game. That is, Mostin's "I Win" attack is not actually playing a game. I'd say that while Sagiro does a good job challenging his players, their group is starting to approach that line as well, and this battle is evidence of that. It seems to me that this is the biggest problem with "Epic" level games, and not the whole mechanical side of things. It also seems to me that is why the beginning levels are the most fun for people; it's where the lines between game and story are interwoven, where they are blurrier.
Wednesday, 15th December, 2010, 10:57 AM #610
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)