[OOC] [Eberron] Beer n Pretzles Keep on the Shadowfell

Graf in the ICC thread said:

OOC: warlocks can curse new target each round. Whether or not you're marked depends on whether or no you're hit again by the kobold dragonshield.
We're at init 23. The mark disappears at 12.1 when the kobold ds marked you the prior round.
Conceal and hide (using stealth) aren't the same. You need concealment to try to hide. You can get conceal by, for example, entering the foliage (difficult terrain). I think using stealth is a standard but will need to look it up.

Click to expand...

I can curse a (new, nearest) target and the old curse stays in effect!?

I hope I will not be hit again But you are right, I should have waited for the kobolds' actions.

I can get conceal by moving 3 squares. If I teleport (minor action) (move by 3 squares = concealment) can I use my move action to hide.

yeah every round a new target can be cursed. Not that it matters now (only one warlock) but you can't curse stack. a new curse superceeds the 1st.

It's convenient for me to have people posting actions so I can keep the game going. Of course the person we're really waiting on is erekose.

I know you get concealment by moving. I was telling you your other options.
I remember that using stealth was a standard action. But I could be wrong which is why I said I'd check.
I am sure there was a penalty for using stealth on any turn when you moved more than two squares. So if you're serious about hiding then moving one square into the foliage and hiding will absolutely be better (better=more likely to suceed) than moving three squares and trying to make a check with a penalty.

I pretty much have to wait to see what the kobolds do before I post, because Brock's encounter power requires two targets near each other.

I appreciate that. I'd hope to hear from Erekose today (my today -- which I realize is when most folks are sleeping), otherwise we'll wind up dealing with the round over the weekend; since this weekend is hella busy for me that means that I probably won't be able to make a proper update until next Monday and the Round 3 probably wouldnt' start until Tuesday or so.
He posted! Yay!

Of course it's an online game and a new system so maybe I should just be more willing to go slowly. (But KotS.... not a short adventure.)
If it's 30 encounters and each one is five rounds (assuming a round a day, and a few days in between encounters for rp/decision making).
Roughly 210 days or 42 weeks (given 5 days a week of actual posting).

Not that I mind. I love online games. But I kinda thought I'd be able to give people more of a taste of 4e by "quickly running them through KotS". May take longer than I thought.

Here's as usual. I was wrong.
I need to stop posting before I've double-checked things.

[sblock=Stealth (Dexterity)]

Stealth: Part of whatever action you are trying to perform stealthily.

• Opposed Check: Stealth vs. Perception (see the table for modifiers to your check). If there are multiple observers, your Stealth check is opposed by each observer’s Perception check.
• Cover or Concealment: Unless a creature is distracted, you must have cover against or concealment from the creature to make a Stealth check. You have to maintain cover or concealment to remain unnoticed. If a creature has unblocked line of sight to you (that is, you lack any cover or concealment), the creature automatically sees you (no Perception check required).
• Superior Cover or Total Concealment: If you have superior cover or total concealment, a creature can’t see you and can’t be sure of your exact location. If its
  Perception check beats your Stealth check, though, it knows you are present, knows the direction to your location, and has a vague idea of the distance between the two of you. If its Perception check beats your Stealth check by 10 or more, the creature
  can pinpoint your location until the end of your next turn, even if you move.
• Distracted Creature: If a creature is distracted, you can attempt to hide from that creature even when you don’t have cover or concealment. In combat, creatures are assumed to be paying attention in all directions. Outside combat, a creature might be
  paying attention to something in a certain direction, allowing you to hide behind the creature’s back. You make a Stealth check as normal to avoid the creature’s notice, since it might hear you.
• Success: You avoid notice, unheard and hidden from view. If you later attack or shout, you’re no longer hidden.
• Failure: You can’t try again unless observers become distracted or you manage to obtain cover or concealment.
• Combat Advantage: You have combat advantage against a target that isn’t aware of you.
• Light Source: Observers automatically see you if you’re carrying a light source.

Penalties
If you Speak –5
If you Move more than 2 squares –5
If you run –10
If you're more than 10 squares away +2 (I think)

I'm assuming that running and moving +2 aren't cumulative[/sblock]

So I guess if you attack and then move 3 you can try to make a Stealth check rolled (at -5 for having moved more than 2 squares) vs each kobold's perception to see if you've managed to lose them.
They'll see you again when you attack again.

This actually makes stealth really powerful.
I was thinking that, in Round 1, Iridian could have teleported to a forested square and used an action point to heal and a standard to disappear. But he could have actually just teleported, spent his second wind (and made his stealth check) and then decided what he wanted to do.

And Iridian's stealth check is +9, not shabby at all.

(Should the DM roll stealth checks and keep them secret?
Probably not in fights.... if the kobold can see you it'd probably be pretty obvious normally what with the pointing and the screaming)

If I understand it correctly, you get concealment (other than from powers) from lighting conditions or being in certain squares.

[sblock=Concealment]OBSCURED SQUARES

• Lightly Obscured: Squares of dim light, foliage, fog, smoke, heavy falling snow, or rain are lightly obscured.
• Heavily Obscured: Squares of heavy fog, heavy smoke, or heavy foliage are heavily obscured.
• Totally Obscured: Squares of darkness are totally obscured.

Effects that cause concealment obscure vision without
preventing attacks.
CONCEALMENT

• Concealment (–2 Penalty to Attack Rolls): The target is in a lightly obscured square or in a heavily obscured square but adjacent to you.
• Total Concealment (–5 Penalty to Attack Rolls): You can’t see the target. The target is invisible, in a totally obscured square, or in a heavily obscured square and not adjacent to you.
• Melee Attacks and Ranged Attacks Only: Attack penalties from concealment apply only to the targets of melee or ranged attacks.

[/sblock]

If you make a stealth check then I guess the creature can't see you
[sblock=Targeting what you can't see]If you’re fighting a creature you can’t see—when a creature is invisible, you’re blinded, or you’re fighting in darkness you can’t see through—you have to target a square rather than the creature.

You also have to figure out which square to attack. Here’s how it works.

• Invisible Creature Uses Stealth: At the end of a concealed creature’s turn, it makes a Stealth check opposed by your passive Perception check. If you beat it, you know there’s a creature present that you can’t see, and you know the direction to its location. If you beat it by 10 or more, you know exactly what square the creature ended its turn in. The concealed creature also makes a Stealth check if it
  takes an immediate action or an opportunity action.
• Make a Perception Check: On your turn, you can make an active Perception check as a minor action, comparing the result to the concealed creature’s last Stealth check. If you win, you know the direction to the creature’s location, or its exact location if you beat it by 10 or more.
• Pick a Square and Attack: Choose a square to attack, using whatever information you’ve gleaned so far about the target’s location. Roll the attack normally (taking the –5 penalty for attacking a creature that has total concealment). If you pick the wrong square, your attack automatically misses, but only the DM knows whether you guessed the wrong square or your attack just missed.
• 
  Close or Area Attacks: You can make a close attack or an area attack that includes the square you think (or know) the concealed creature is in. Your attack roll doesn’t take a penalty from the target’s concealment.

[/sblock]

So the system would seem to be
Tyron's turn, get concealment, make stealth check (one roll) vs. each Kobold (actively rolled). If you succeed you've "disappeared". They don't know where you are, though they do know where you were when you were last not concealed.
--At this point you get combat advantage against them.

At the -end- of Tyron's turn you make stealth check vs their passive perception. If you make -that- check they can't see you till your next turn (and then only if you attack or bring attention to yourself). If you miss by up to 9 then they know you're there and the direction but not which square (Still have combat advantage).
-If you miss by 10 then they see you.

They can take minor actions during their turn to search for you. If they win by 10 they can see you, otherwise they just know you're "there" and which direction.

If they ever have LOS, or you otherwise lose concealment then you have to do it all over again. But if Tyron doesn't attack, keeps moving three or more squares a round and makes the stealth checks each round vs their passives (and their minors if they start searching)? Then he's still "effectively invisible".

The next part of the round is up.
Iridian is dropped (but probably not by what you'd think); Tyron is in bad shape. Brock demonstrates why the kobolds haven't been trying to attack anything with a high AC).

I have comments on each person's initiative line. Map coming.

Guess I'm destined for save vs. death. Did you want me to roll when it comes up next round?

All these pieces are really going to take some getting used to.

Unfortunately...
on the plus side you're almost certain not to die.
(the last kobold fight ended quickly this one doesn't have much more of an xp budget)

They had good rolls. It was a prepared ambush. You don't really know how the game works (nobody does at this stage).
After everyone who attacked you hit you in the surprise round you were in a tough spot.

Please do roll your saves.

Guys (and gals?), I think we have to need to improve our tactics for surviving 4e. Seperated strikers that got mobbed, nearly non-moving defenders...

Any ideas how we could change our tactics to survive this encounter and, if we live, the next?