D&D 4E Shado's 4e Color Landscape Sheets v1.2: UPDATED 6/24

Shado · Jun 17, 2008

SBalrog said:
I have 2 suggestions:
- Replace the Surges Used box with a couple of rows of checkboxes, I prefer to check of when I'm using them.
- Add a used checkbox for the powers sheet to keep track of which powers are spent for the encounter / day.

The power sheet is undergoing a fairly major revision atm. The new version has some space I designed for use as a pseudo combat sheet and includes checkboxes for spent powers.

I'm against using checkboxes for Surges. Characters can have anywhere from 5 to 21+ healing surges a day. I think using hash marks in a flexible space is more universal.

Morandir Nailo said:
I'm unable to read the sheets. When I open them with Acrobat, I get this message: "There was an error processing a page. There was a problem reading this document (9)." Any idea what could be going on?

Mor

Unfortunately Mor, I can't be sure. The file is set-up for Acrobat 6 or higher. What version are you using?

Black Plauge said:
It would be nice to have a ability check modifier box in addition to the normal modifier box (i.e. while a character with 16 strength has a +3 modifier, they also get to add 1/2 their level when making a strength check). The math is easy, but the less math at the table the better.

When printed the hollow styled text don't show up very well and it gets worse as the text goes down on the page. I can make out "STR" but "Combat" and "Skills" might as well not have been printed.

I've made more changes to my working sheet to improve readability of the white text used on the sheet. Hopefully that'll help... not really sure what problem you're having with Combat and Skills.

Stat Mods...

You're not the only one to request the ability modifier box. ( Jasper657

)

I'm not really sure what to do here.

The response to the sheet has been phenomenal, and there have been plenty of suggestions and observations that have helped me improve the sheet. I really want to be responsive to suggestions and make this the best sheet there is. And this is one comment that keeps coming up.

I hesitate to make the change however due to the modularity of 4e combat. In 3.x, weapon attack stats where very binary. It was either STR or DEX. Occasionally there was a unique situation, but it was generally specific to a weapon, weapon type or specific attack (of which there was a limited number of in 3.x) With 4e, a Weapon attack could be modified by STR, DEX, WIS or CHA based entirely on the class or power used. An Implement could have CON, WIS, INT or CHA modifying it. While some classes are more stat specific, other aren't and multi-classing complicates the situation.

Now, seeing as every power in 4e gives specific information on which stat mod to add, I feel weapons and implements should be stat neutral.

However... I think I have a compromise. A lot of the sheet was built during the months building up to the release of 4e, and I'm noticing I have a "feat" box in the to-hit calculations. Looking through the PHB, there are no blanket to-hit feat bonuses that are appropriate. In the next version, I'll modify the box to list as a "Misc. Mod." which should be flexible enough for my line of thought on the keeping weapons and implements stat neutral, or for those who would prefer to list a stat mod.

Hopefully that'll help.

Jasper657 said:
Also noted that the armor/magic items on the back is missing the shield bonus.

I'll look into it. Will throw off the balance of the section, but I'll see what I can come up with.

DarthMeer (and others): I hear your requests, but unfortunately, I can't generate a form version of the sheet without the Pro version of Acrobat. I'd really love to be able to fulfill your requests, I just don't have the tools.

Thanks all again for your comment and support! It's really an honor that the sheet got nominated for Fan Creation of the Week. As I said above, the power sheet is undergoing a fairly major revision. The main sheet has had some minor tweaks, and the much requested RP sheet in underway. No promises on delivery, but again, I hope to get the latest updates together before the end of the week.

Ajax_of_Kray · Jun 17, 2008

Shado, I agree with you that the stat mods should not be in your weapon/implement lines. Our 3.x mindset says they should be, but as you've pointed out powers change this into a modular system. The beauty of your layout is that it understands this. I plan to use the weapon lines for the base bonuses that apply to every attack with that weapon, and use the power lines for bonus that apply to every attack with that power. This means for any power you have your d20 + weapon line bonus + power line bonus. The negative of two things to add is a small price to pay for easily using different powers with different weapons.

Thanks again for the sheets!

Sadrik · Jun 17, 2008

Looks great.
One niggle though, the "Abilities" section should be called "Features" or "Race and Class Features". Abilities are Str, Dex etc.

Edit: on the power sheet it says the same thing. It should say, "Related Feats and Features". Again, "Abilities" are Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, and Cha.

Black Plauge · Jun 17, 2008

Stat Mods...

You're not the only one to request the ability modifier box. ( Jasper657 )

I'm not really sure what to do here.

The response to the sheet has been phenomenal, and there have been plenty of suggestions and observations that have helped me improve the sheet. I really want to be responsive to suggestions and make this the best sheet there is. And this is one comment that keeps coming up.

I hesitate to make the change however due to the modularity of 4e combat. In 3.x, weapon attack stats where very binary. It was either STR or DEX. Occasionally there was a unique situation, but it was generally specific to a weapon, weapon type or specific attack (of which there was a limited number of in 3.x) With 4e, a Weapon attack could be modified by STR, DEX, WIS or CHA based entirely on the class or power used. An Implement could have CON, WIS, INT or CHA modifying it. While some classes are more stat specific, other aren't and multi-classing complicates the situation.

Now, seeing as every power in 4e gives specific information on which stat mod to add, I feel weapons and implements should be stat neutral.

I wasn't referring to the weapons and implements or powers sections (whose format I don't really have a problem with). I was referring to the abilities section. As it stands each ability has two boxes: one for the score and one for the modifier. I'd like to see one more box for the check modifier.

If a 10th level character with Str 16 needs to make a straight strength check for some reason, then he rolls 1d20+8, not 1d20+3. I.e. he gets both half his level and his strength modifier to that check (hence why MM entries already have half-level included in the listed modifiers). It's easy math, but having the extra box would be something of a time saver.

azigen · Jun 18, 2008

This is a great sheet, and I think the landscape is nice. However, it really needs to be a fillable form. If this could be combined with the work of the people from character forge I would be really impressed.

Second, I am never a fan or dirtying up my character sheet to mark spent healing surges , hp , or action points. In fact I never write anything temporary on my character sheet. I track it all on a ssperate piece of paper. So something like that would be a nice addition

Vesper · Jun 20, 2008

azigen said:
This is a great sheet, and I think the landscape is nice. However, it really needs to be a fillable form.

Since I really like this sheet, I took it upon myself to make it into a form. I have the first page done so far (which was the bulk of the work). Look for a post of the main char sheet with form fields by this weekend.

Sphyre · Jun 20, 2008

Shado said:
and was crazy enough to make my first computer sheets in paint.

I still make mine in paint. I know it takes a while, but it produces the results I am looking for. I don't know why, but everyone I play with always has enjoyed my character sheets over all of the alternatives out there. They must think like me or something.

Anyway, I was really impressed with your sheet at first glance. It looks nice, and I really liked how you imported PHB art. As such, I imported a lot of the art from your character sheet and modified it in paint. When I was done I realized that paint has an odd resolution, so I used photoshop to resize it so I could make it into an 8.5 x 11 pdf, so it's slightly skewed.

Anyway, with your permission, I'd like to post it in this thread, as you were the big inspiration for my sheet. (At least on the art. The layout is very similar to my 3.5 character sheet layout.)

[sblock=Notes on my sheet]It's designed with something called the "standard modifier" which is 1/2 your character level plus the stat modifier. I don't know what happened to it, whether the standard modifier was scrapped or what, but by using it, you don't need to write in 1/2 your level 1000 times.

It's designed for use with power cards or a power sheet. It allows you to mix and match weapons. You deduce damage in your head fairly easily with it. Take your standard modifier off of the stats, add your weapon to hit bonus and that's your to hit. For damage, your mods are there as well as damage die. No matter your combination (of up to three weapons/implements) it's easy.

If you want to use the abilities section for powers it has plenty of room for it as well. The abilities section is intended to pool everything from class features to racial abilities together into one spot. It's what you can do, regardless of it's source.

It has a box for miscellaneous bonuses from allies, such as the half-elf's "I'm sexy so he talks better!" (Group diplomacy) or the warlord's "I'm so smart, your muscles move faster!" (Tactical Presence) in which you can fill in what the bonus is, who gives you it, and how close you need to be to get that bonus.[/sblock]

Ingolf · Jun 20, 2008

I took a shot at "forming" a version of Shado's sheet this week, which I have attached to this post. It isn't perfect, and someone with more experience in Acrobat could almost certainly improve on it, but it seems to work pretty well. I have noticed that certain cells do not recalculate properly; typically deleting the errant value and pressing enter will correct the problem. I am not sure what is going on there, but i am a bit of a novice.

The only problem is, this is from a version of the original sheet dated 6/10 and so does not reflect any of the most recent improvements. If I have time over the next few days I may look into the issue of updating the form to reflect the current state of Shado's (excellent) original work.

Vesper · Jun 20, 2008

Hey guys.. as promised, here's my form version of Shado's char sheet. It has full calculations of fields (with the exception of AC ability mod since it depends on armor type), checkbox-javascript to make sure only one is checked for each power, etc. Please let me know if you see anything that looks incorrect.

Enjoy!

lwp123 · Jun 20, 2008

Vesper said:
Hey guys.. as promised, here's my form version of Shado's char sheet. It has full calculations of fields (with the exception of AC ability mod since it depends on armor type), checkbox-javascript to make sure only one is checked for each power, etc. Please let me know if you see anything that looks incorrect.

Enjoy!

The Intimidate skill total doesn't seem to pick up the Ability modifier value. All the other skills seem to be ok.