Lots of statistics from the Monster Manual - Page 5
+ Log in or register to post
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 122
  1. #41
    Member
    Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)

    the Jester's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Shingletown, CA 96088
    Posts
    22,414
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block the Jester


    Friend+
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aria Silverhands
    One of the WizO's agrees with me. They agreed the stormwind crap was basically propaganda propagated by power gamers in an attempt to legitimize their game breaking character choices. Optimizing is just another attempt by power gamers to try and hide from the negative stigma attached to power gaming and being a munchkin.
    Not only is this an appeal to authority phallacy, it's a terrible one. "OOOOH! A WizO agrees with you!" doesn't really bear much weight when it comes to an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aria Silverhands
    First they were munchkins, so they tried to hide behind the word power gamer. Now they're trying to hide behind optomizer and it's just ridiculous. RPG's are role playing games, not roll playing adventure games.
    I'm glad that you know the One True Way to Play D&D. Thumbs up.

  2. #42
    Member
    Defender (Lvl 8)

    WayneLigon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    montgomery, Alabama
    Posts
    7,106
    Reviews
    Read 1 Reviews

    Block WayneLigon


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Aria Silverhands
    It's my opinion that number crunching like this only undermines what a roleplaying game is supposed to be and I blame it on crpg's, mmo's, and the internet.
    Only if you want to remain ignorant about the hows and whys of encounter building, or about possible pitfalls in the game system. Arming yourself with a working knowledge of the math behind the game has all kinds of advantages that have nothing to do with suppossed power gaming.

    The more you learn about the inner workings of your game, the better prepared you are when someone tries to pull some rules-lawyering BS or thinks he's come up with the next 'bag-o-rats' exploits - people who don't learn this lesson tend to get bulldozed the first time they have to deal with someone even moderately exploitive.

  3. #43
    Member
    Magsman (Lvl 14)

    Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Oldenburg
    Posts
    15,156
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Mustrum_Ridcully


    Friend+
    My communities:

    I love power-gaming. Power-gaming is great. A role-playing game that doesn't allow me to power-game is not to my taste.

    There is, off course, a limit. I don't like power-gaming if there is only one good power-gaming build is. That gets boring.

    I want to take a concept like "Swashbuckler, great at seducing women", or a concept like "Wizard specializing in illusions and enchantments to avoid having to kill people." and have rules that i can use to achieve this concept with the best effect, and be as combat effective as if I had just played a Weapon Specialist Fighter focusing on the biggest and baddest weapon out there.

    Now, after a short excursion to the realms of my wet power-gaming fantasies, head back to the real topic:

    Awesome list. I think it shows that there is a consistent math behind all the rules.

  4. #44
    Member
    Myrmidon (Lvl 10)

    Infiniti2000's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    10,479
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Infiniti2000


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by doctorhook
    Let's just do what's done on the Gleemax boards*: ignore Aria, and hope he either gets on topic or goes away.
    Not "he". Aria is a girl's name.

  5. #45
    Liquid Awesome
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)

    Rel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    11,570
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Rel


    Friend+
    My communities:

    Aria, given how universally negative the reaction has been to some of your posts, I'd suggest reevaluating your posting style if you want your message to be heard.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Aria Silverhands
    Yeah, just what a roleplaying game needs to encourage: number crunching. It's my opinion that number crunching like this only undermines what a roleplaying game is supposed to be and I blame it on crpg's, mmo's, and the internet.
    ...?

    How does a statistical analysis of traits in the MM undermine roleplaying? Can you please give a bullet point list how it does that?

    Also: CRPGs and MMOs are perfectly playable without crunching any numbers what so ever. The computer does that for you. TT RPGs are more math intensive. Also, the internet? What does that have to do with how good you roleplay an elf?

    Seriously, this may be a strong emotional issue for you, but try to make some logical arguments of those emotions.

  7. #47
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)

    Jack99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    5,498
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    GM's DayThe Perturbed DragonGoodman GamesEN World EN5iderI Defended The Walls!

    Block Jack99


    Friend+
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by Infiniti2000
    Not "he". Aria is a girl's name.
    You mean like in WoW, where every female toon is played by a hot, horny model, just waiting for you to hit on her?

  8. #48
    Member
    Magsman (Lvl 14)

    Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Oldenburg
    Posts
    15,156
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Mustrum_Ridcully


    Friend+
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack99
    You mean like in WoW, where every female toon is played by a hot, horny model, just waiting for you to hit on her?
    Damn. Maybe I gave up to early on WoW... Well, at least I got your avatar...

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by med stud
    How does a statistical analysis of traits in the MM undermine roleplaying? Can you please give a bullet point list how it does that?
    Such information, when presented to players, undermines their confidence in their characters capabilities, making them rethink their choices that were based on enjoyment, feel, and perception, rather than calculated statistics. They stop evaluating new abilities, feats, etc by the numbers, rather than simple appeal.

    Also: CRPGs and MMOs are perfectly playable without crunching any numbers what so ever. The computer does that for you. TT RPGs are more math intensive. Also, the internet? What does that have to do with how good you roleplay an elf?
    I'll start with the internet first. Before widespread use of the internet, I never knew of anyone who would create detailed statistical analysis' of all the stats in the monster manual. No one in my experience has done so. People just played the game for what it was and accepted what it wasn't. With the ease of communication over the internet, we've gone from simply playing the game to dissecting the game. Any game really. Just look at all the sites devoted to analyzing every single statistic and formula for crpg's and mmo's. Especially mmo's.

    That statistic driven competitive mindset has infected gamers everywhere. Yeah, it's all personal experience and anecdotal evidence, but when D&D games turn into discussions of numbers and stats... I get disgusted. D&D is about roleplaying, not number crunching. People have lost sight of what the game should be.

    Instead of creating games where the numbers are less important, computer games have turned the focus towards the numbers, in an ever increasing drive to be the best. I alway read things where people say they want a challenge, but then they go through and try to find the easiest way to beat something.

    Seriously, this may be a strong emotional issue for you, but try to make some logical arguments of those emotions.
    Playing games is about emotions. Numbers are inherently without emotion. Same with statistics. The only reason to worry about numbers, is for personal and selfish enjoyment through being "better" at the game. There's no thought given to how your character might affect the group as a whole. I've seen one group dissolve because players stopped showing up. Their reason was that the game just wasn't fun anymore with a certain player in the group and the dm was too timid to kick them out. That player was a min/maxxing power gamer to the core. That's one group too many, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by WayneLigon
    Only if you want to remain ignorant about the hows and whys of encounter building, or about possible pitfalls in the game system. Arming yourself with a working knowledge of the math behind the game has all kinds of advantages that have nothing to do with suppossed power gaming.

    The more you learn about the inner workings of your game, the better prepared you are when someone tries to pull some rules-lawyering BS or thinks he's come up with the next 'bag-o-rats' exploits - people who don't learn this lesson tend to get bulldozed the first time they have to deal with someone even moderately exploitive.
    I only need one thing to deal with any exploits: common sense. The math is irrelevant.

  10. #50
    Member
    Waghalter (Lvl 7)

    WhatGravitas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Grim, dark... the UK
    Posts
    3,626
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block WhatGravitas


    Friend+
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aria Silverhands
    Numbers are inherently without emotion.
    Why do you think so?

    Cheers, LT.

+ Log in or register to post
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Monster Manual monster attack keywords, resistances, immunities, and vulnerabilities.
    By FatAndy in forum Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, and OSR Gaming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Monday, 18th May, 2009, 12:30 PM
  2. 4e Monster resistance statistics
    By shmoo2 in forum Roleplaying Games General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Tuesday, 20th January, 2009, 04:30 AM
  3. More statistics from the Monster Manual -- attacks
    By kerbarian in forum Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, and OSR Gaming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Friday, 13th June, 2008, 11:43 AM
  4. [XRP] A Magical Society: Guide to Monster Statistics now Available
    By jgbrowning in forum Roleplaying Games General Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Wednesday, 23rd February, 2005, 03:21 PM
  5. Do you prefer Monster statistics in an adventure's text or at the end
    By pogre in forum Roleplaying Games General Discussion
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: Wednesday, 16th June, 2004, 07:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •