Lots of statistics from the Monster Manual

Tewligan said:

Ah, thank god! For a couple of pages there, I was afraid you were going to just half-ass this thread crap. Thank you for pulling out the big guns and really douching it up!

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Tewligan, you know that's not acceptable here. But then I'm sure you expected the ban when you posted it. See you in three days.

Aria Silverhands said:

I'd rather read a novel than read a book of statistics.

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This makes me sad.

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hong said:

This makes me sad.

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You are not the one who is truly sad.

Anyway, I'd rather read statistics than a flame war. Thanks for cleaning up the thread, mods.

Cheers, -- N

Just in case the topic isn't quite dead: any statistics on Defenses vs. Attacks by role?

Like, if you see Brutes, go for the Will attacks; if you see a Controller, then hit Fortitude?

Thanks, -- N

Nifft said:

Just in case the topic isn't quite dead: any statistics on Defenses vs. Attacks by role?

Like, if you see Brutes, go for the Will attacks; if you see a Controller, then hit Fortitude?

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Yeah, that's already in there, under Defenses -- the third and fourth tables. If you see Brutes, go for Reflex or Will; if you see a Controller, go for Reflex.

kerbarian said:

Yeah, that's already in there, under Defenses -- the third and fourth tables. If you see Brutes, go for Reflex or Will; if you see a Controller, go for Reflex.

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D'oh, thanks!

Cheers, -- N

What we could really use now is a table of PC attacks by defense targetted and level. Anyone seen one yet?

That's a great resource. Is there a chance you are willing to make the xls (or whatever format you are using) available ? I was going to compile some data myself but the prospect of saving hours of work is appealing.

I will agree to any non-concurrence / must-mention-original-author 'licensing' terms you impose.

Aria Silverhands said:

Such information, when presented to players, undermines their confidence in their characters capabilities, making them rethink their choices that were based on enjoyment, feel, and perception, rather than calculated statistics. They stop evaluating new abilities, feats, etc by the numbers, rather than simple appeal.

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And where is the fun when the neat-sounding ability (say, Tieflings burninating things with fire) runs up against the reality in the game where so many things will be resistant or immune? My neat sounding ability, my hoped for contribution to the group, my tool in my quest, is useless against so many of the hurdles that I face?

When Aeriel Verloren (my current wizard in a 3.5 game I'm playing in) is investigating a challenge, she consults books, sages, and bards. She learns about what she might face, and plans her spell choices accordingly. She's gone on an adventure to find a masterwork knowledge of Arcana book. When she sees a monster, she checks her memory as to what kind of attack this creature is most vulnerable to - and casts a spell against that vulnerability.
In 3.5, the knowledge check allows her skill, her intelligence, into the game.
To do otherwise would be playing an intelligence 18 character stupidly.

I'll start with the internet first. Before widespread use of the internet, I never knew of anyone who would create detailed statistical analysis' of all the stats in the monster manual. No one in my experience has done so. People just played the game for what it was and accepted what it wasn't. With the ease of communication over the internet, we've gone from simply playing the game to dissecting the game. Any game really. Just look at all the sites devoted to analyzing every single statistic and formula for crpg's and mmo's. Especially mmo's.

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The internet (and computers in general) has made compilation and distribution of these statistics easier. But they happened anyway. They were distributed instead in fanzines and such. There were many different role-playing magazines besides the Dragon (still are) with fan created content. There were BBS bulletin boards before the internet made such connections world wide and universal.

That statistic driven competitive mindset has infected gamers everywhere. Yeah, it's all personal experience and anecdotal evidence, but when D&D games turn into discussions of numbers and stats... I get disgusted. D&D is about roleplaying, not number crunching. People have lost sight of what the game should be.

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The Dungeons and Dragons experience is different at nearly every group that sits down and plays.

You and your group are entirely free to ignore this thread. You are free to not sit down and game with me and others on this thread.

Instead of creating games where the numbers are less important, computer games have turned the focus towards the numbers, in an ever increasing drive to be the best. I alway read things where people say they want a challenge, but then they go through and try to find the easiest way to beat something.

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Some work hard at finding the easiest way.

Playing games is about emotions. Numbers are inherently without emotion. Same with statistics. The only reason to worry about numbers, is for personal and selfish enjoyment through being "better" at the game. There's no thought given to how your character might affect the group as a whole. I've seen one group dissolve because players stopped showing up. Their reason was that the game just wasn't fun anymore with a certain player in the group and the dm was too timid to kick them out. That player was a min/maxxing power gamer to the core. That's one group too many, imo.

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Then that player didn't belong in that group.

You can play the game as you like. I'm not telling you different.

You, however, are intruding in on how others play the game.

ebenmckay said:

What we could really use now is a table of PC attacks by defense targetted and level. Anyone seen one yet?

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I've been checking out the warlock. I read about the Raven Queen and something just CLICKED. Never having wanted to play a paladin before, and now I've got a warlock multi-classed to paladin, Enforcer of Fate, servant of the Raven Queen.

Anyway.
I've got an excel sheet of warlock heroic powers, by pact, level, use (at will/daily/encounter), key ability, damage type and defense. I needed to know if this cool concept actually WORKED.
It does, but I need both charisma and constitution.