Debug my Doppelganger Rogue

OK, the FLGS uncrated the books and I spent some time looking at the parts of most interest to me -- monster creation. A bit sparse, but that's my feeling for the entire set. Everything's been flayed to the bone. (Is there no non-lethal damage anymore? Rangers no longer have favored enemy? No familiars, no companions, etc, etc, etc...)

Anyway, I decided to try to create a doppelganger with rogue levels -- or, in this case, a rogue template. Here's what I came up with. Can someone check my math? Esp. the Sneak Attack stacking w/the doppelganger's natural abilities. Also not sure if it should get +2 AC from leather armor.

BTW, the way the MM lists the attribute modifiers is a real PITA, since you need the raw (no 1/2 level adds) for figuring out damage modifiers, etc, when adding powers.

Also, it's not clear whether you should use the "monster rules" (p. 184) for figuring out attacks when using exploits, or the "PC" rules -- IOW, is Deep cut +13 (Level +5) or +9 (1/2 level + Dex Mod)? I went with +13, but I'm not sure, and that's a pretty large difference.

Overall, time to create was pretty low -- about 10-15 minutes, and most of the was copying over the data. I hope WOTC releases legal PDFs soon, and that they're not crippled. (Allow copy/paste)

Also, is this effective as an opponent? Or am I putting too much into "Make sure you have CA" and need to spread it out a bit?

I miss picking feats.

Also also, I'm having trouble with the skills: The Bluff +15, for example...shouldn't that be +13 (+8 base, +5 trained?) Or is this "Exception based design"?

"Hey, we miscalculated some..."
"Exception based design!"
"But, look, the book says..."
"Exception based design!"
"Bu..."
"Exception based design!"

===========================
Doppelganger Master Assassin Level 8 Elite Lurker (Rogue)
Med. Nat. Hum. XP 700
Initiative +13
Perception +10
HP 148; Bloodied 74
Armor 25, Fortitude 18, Reflex 23, Will 21
Speed: 6
Dagger (standard, at-will)
+13 vs. AC; 1d4 + 5 damage.

Shapeshifter Feint (minor, at-will)
+11 vs. Reflex;gain combat advantage

Cloud Mind (standard, sustain minor, encounter)
Close burst 5, +11 vs. Will, invisible to all in area

Combat Advantage
+2d6 damage if combat advantage

Sneak Attack
Add +2d6 once per turn if CA (+4d6 total)

Change Shape (minor, at-will)

Sly Flourish (Standard, at-will)
+13 vs. AC, 1d4+9

Setup Strike (Standard; Encounter)
+13 vs AC, 2d4+5, gain combat advantage

Deep Cut (Standard, Daily)
+13 vs AC, 2d4+5, ongoing 6 damage, save ends

Alignment Evil Languages Common

Chameleon (Utility)
Can make a stealth check if you lose cover or concealment

Skills Bluff +15, Insight +12, Thievery +14, Stealth +14, Streetwise +10

Saves: +2

Surges: 1 (No Second Wind)

Action Points: 1

Str 12 (+1/+5) Dex 21 (+5/+9) Wis 12 (+1/+5)
Con 15 (+2/+6) Int 13 (+1/+5) Cha 19 (+4/+8)

Equipment: Leather Armor (+2 AC), Dagger

The bluff 15 includes its +2 race bonus, since that was bothering you. The rest looked fine at first glance.

Oh, and Deep Cut if it were an NPC would be at least +13 - dagger is +3 proficiency and rogues get +1.

keterys said:

The bluff 15 includes its +2 race bonus, since that was bothering you. The rest looked fine at first glance.

Oh, and Deep Cut if it were an NPC would be at least +13 - dagger is +3 proficiency and rogues get +1.

Click to expand...

Ah, thanks.

I really miss the way the 3x books called out each modifier so you could know what was what. Should have cross-checked with the race listing.

Does that mean my creature's standard attack should be +17 (8+5+3+1), or is the +3 figured in because it's got dagger as part of standard equipment and is, presumably, proficient in it?

It should be 13. When doing monsters, don't really sweat the how you get there and worry that a character done the same way might be off by 1 or whatever.

This is especially true at high level where you get a passive benefit that players get via magic weapons and such, without requiring that you have the magic weapon. The math works out, is easy enough, and is balanced.

I know it'll be hard to drop the 'But, what if I switch to a different weapon, would it be lower attack value' type mentality, but... it doesn't matter unless you force it to, and if you can be happy without forcing it, that's a benefit.