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Thread: Sneak Attack + Critical Hit?
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 11:23 AM #31
The PHB is perfectly clear on it. The only damage not maximized is damage that is caused by critical hits. Sneak Attack, Hunter's Quarry, and Warlock's Curse are not caused by critical hits. Thus, they are maximized.
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Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 01:06 PM #32
I'm pretty sure that the only real reason people are thinking sneak attack dice aren't maximised is because that's the way it was in 3e.
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 01:26 PM #33
Novice (Lvl 1)
Remember the handbook is written on an exception basis. It will exclude what isn't maximized on a crit and anything not mentioned is maximized. Example high crit and magic weapon damage are not maximized it specifically says they are not. Everything else not mentioned is maximized.
There is some really poor logic being thrown around in this thread.
It doesn't actually matter but since it was mentioned by some one else. You choose to apply the sneak attack damage to be applied after the attack roll not the damage roll.
The doubling your sneak attack damage or doubling your crit is very simple. If you don't crit you double your sneak attack damage. If you do crit you double the entire max damage. You don't double your sneak attack damage and then double it again with the critical hit.
The rules are very clear on these points.
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 01:49 PM #34
Originally Posted by ozziewolf
The power I believe you are refering to ( Assassin's Point ) says double any EXTRA damage from sneak attack or a critical. That would be extra critical dice you roll from a weapon being high crit or having a magical ability that applies extra rolled damage on a critical, this power would not double the entire attack.
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 02:10 PM #35
Novice (Lvl 1)
You're right the key word being "extra" damage. I hadn't read it closely enough when it was posted and hadn't double checked the manual. (My mistake.)Originally Posted by DClown
So to clarify on a non sneak attack you would double your sneak attack damage and on a critical hit you would maximize your normal dice.. sneak attack, damage dice, etc.. and then you would double the bonus dice you get from a magical weapon that is activated on a critical hit. (The double damage would not be maximized as usual of course.)
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 02:58 PM #36
The way I read Assassin's Point is that you schoose to either double the damage coming from sneak or from the crit. I don't see any reason why you can't choose which to double after the roll is made.
Attacks with a +3 dagger that normally deals 1d4 +4 dex + 3 enh +2d6 sneak
On the normal hit you will of course choose to double what you roll on those extra 2 dice of sneak damage.
On a crit you are dealing 11+12 sneak damage +3d6 crit bonus. You can choose to double the extra damage from the sneak ability (12) or the crit dice (3d6). At this point it depends on what your crit dice roll is like as to which you are going to double.
However when you are epic level with a +6 vorpal dagger, you are most likely going to be doubling the extra crit damage as it is going to be 6d12+any of these rerolled, rather than the 30 sneak damage.
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 03:22 PM #37
Novice (Lvl 1)
With this being a level 29 daily ability, magic weapons will probably always outshine weapon damage so it's really not even an issue for which one they'll choose. Just that it's an either or situation but not both.Originally Posted by kclark
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 04:28 PM #38
This is incorrect. Page 117 for the relevant text.Originally Posted by ozziewolf
"You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll."
I'm not sure that that matters... I was formerly strongly in the camp of sneak attack not maximized, based on the apparent "damage dealing step" implied by the sneak attack text.
However the Valenae example on page 276 currently has me stumped.
It seems to suggest that if she used her thundering longsword encounter power on a critical hit the result would be maximized. The text states she would deal 10 extra damage and the damage is supposed to be 1d8... so something is wrong there... but it does suggest that variable damage amounts that aren't directly resulting from crits should be maximized.
I hope this turns up in the FAQ soon.
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 04:36 PM #39
Novice (Lvl 1)
I was remembering that as after the attack roll not the damage roll.Originally Posted by Xfer83
Regardless the book is still written on an exception basis it specifically excludes bonus damage from magical weapons but not sneak attacks. There for sneak attack damage is maximized.
Tuesday, 24th June, 2008, 04:41 PM #40
The major areas of confusion seem to all have 3E hanging around their necks.Originally Posted by Gort