zoroaster100
First Post
The way I read it, you maximize everything except the dice you only roll when you get a crit (such as from high crit weapons and magic weapons). Has anyone gotten a WOTC CSR response on this question?
Sneak Attack + Critical Hit?
MarkB
Legend
If the Sneak Attack damage is extra damage that's applied separately for the purposes of whether it's maximised on a critical hit, is it then also extra damage that's applied separately for purposes of, say, damage resistance? It seems to me that it can't be one without the other - either the sneak attack damage is part of the attack's damage roll for all purposes, or it is separate damage for all purposes.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
we have been treating it as max anything but extra stuff from the crit itself...so sneak attack crits
GhostTiger
First Post
Yes they are
Ok, Wizard's Forum for rules questions says Sneak Attack, Hunter's Quarry amd Warlock's Curse (?) are maxed on a crit. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1047354. I've never posted a link before so forgive me if it doesn't work, but that is the copied URL.
Ok, Wizard's Forum for rules questions says Sneak Attack, Hunter's Quarry amd Warlock's Curse (?) are maxed on a crit. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1047354. I've never posted a link before so forgive me if it doesn't work, but that is the copied URL.
Gundark
Explorer
However sneak attack is refered to as extra damage. And extra damage is rolled not maxed with the critical
Zurai
First Post
Incorrect. Extra damage from magic weapon critical bonuses or High Crit weapons is not maximized with the critical.
Ok, here's my take.. coming from 3.5, I was initially assuming a critical only means WEAPON DAMAGE is maxed... of course, high crit damage is sort of weapon damage, but it has an explicit exception exluding it.
Now, I've come to the conclusion "it" IS all maxed minus damage rolled SPECIFICALLY because this was a crit (otherwise, a magic weapon that does 1d6 extra on a crit would be meaningless, since it would always come out as 6).
So this is pretty set in stone, no questions asked... the only variable is, what does the "it" in my above paragraph represent.
Well, "it" is the damage of an attack. What is an attack? Well, to me, now, after reading tons of sources, I've come to the conclusion that an 'attack' in this sense isn't an "attack power", it's just an attack. An attack is 2 things... an attack roll and the results of that attack roll. ALL of the results of that attack roll. Anything that happens as a direct result of that attack roll (minus the effects of immediate interrupts or reactions from others which happen to trigger based on that attack roll, of course).
This would mean, if I roll an attack roll, everything I do as the result of that attack roll is part of "it". This includes effects of a hit (or miss), powers triggered off that hit (again, not reactions or interrupts, just attack results), etc. Even though Sneak attack damage is applied after your normal damage roll, it is STILL a direct result of that attack roll, and thus is a part of "it" . Weapon high-crit damage, magic weapon and implement extra damage are ALSO a part of "it", however, they are explicitly excluded (because of the logic of the thing, as mentioned before... since it IS a crit, why give a die instead of a constant number if you weren't intended to rollt he die?) in this instance (though anything else refering to my "it", i.e. the result of an attack, would include those.
There are lots of places where this viewpoint also makes other things clear, and I believe it is the intended usage of the rules. And until I see something official proving otherwise, this is what I use as the basis for deciding on these types of rules.
But I'm taking that as a personal house ruling, if you don't agree, great.. debate it, but don't get so locked into your viewpoint you just flat out say I'm "wrong" .
Basically, if you are running a game, run it how you feel it should be run... if you want to make crits less lethal (for PCs AND NPCs ... Crits will more often occur AGAINST your PCs than they will FOR, since there are far more enemies rolling attacks, so statistical likelihood is a lot higher that crits are a BAD thing or course, only a certain set of NPCs get extra damage, while you likely have at least one PC who is always applicable, and not all attacks get that bonus.. but... whatever), rule to roll extra damage.. if you want lethal crits from creatures/PCs who can take advantage of weak points, max everything (minus crit-specific damage).
If you want to make the PCs feel powerful, give them special treatment, and only let THEIR crits max everything, and NPC crits roll extra... whatever, it's your world, do what you want.
And while the system is supposed to be balanced for this or that... crits are rare enough special cases that changing the way they work in your campaign won't have any significant overall impact, it'll just affect the burst points, and make things more or less tense depending on how you run it.
And if you are a player playing under a DM who thinks differently than you... debate it outside of session times, and go with his ruling... sometimes the world doesn't work the way you wish it would. Live with his version of reality while you exist in his world and move on. It's not worth arguing over if his mind is set, but you still can state your opinion, as long as it isn't bogging down the game.
All my own opinion, I'm sure most likely YOURS is different... which is great, I like to be unique.
Now, I've come to the conclusion "it" IS all maxed minus damage rolled SPECIFICALLY because this was a crit (otherwise, a magic weapon that does 1d6 extra on a crit would be meaningless, since it would always come out as 6).
So this is pretty set in stone, no questions asked... the only variable is, what does the "it" in my above paragraph represent.
Well, "it" is the damage of an attack. What is an attack? Well, to me, now, after reading tons of sources, I've come to the conclusion that an 'attack' in this sense isn't an "attack power", it's just an attack. An attack is 2 things... an attack roll and the results of that attack roll. ALL of the results of that attack roll. Anything that happens as a direct result of that attack roll (minus the effects of immediate interrupts or reactions from others which happen to trigger based on that attack roll, of course).
This would mean, if I roll an attack roll, everything I do as the result of that attack roll is part of "it". This includes effects of a hit (or miss), powers triggered off that hit (again, not reactions or interrupts, just attack results), etc. Even though Sneak attack damage is applied after your normal damage roll, it is STILL a direct result of that attack roll, and thus is a part of "it" . Weapon high-crit damage, magic weapon and implement extra damage are ALSO a part of "it", however, they are explicitly excluded (because of the logic of the thing, as mentioned before... since it IS a crit, why give a die instead of a constant number if you weren't intended to rollt he die?) in this instance (though anything else refering to my "it", i.e. the result of an attack, would include those.
There are lots of places where this viewpoint also makes other things clear, and I believe it is the intended usage of the rules. And until I see something official proving otherwise, this is what I use as the basis for deciding on these types of rules.
But I'm taking that as a personal house ruling, if you don't agree, great.. debate it, but don't get so locked into your viewpoint you just flat out say I'm "wrong" .
Basically, if you are running a game, run it how you feel it should be run... if you want to make crits less lethal (for PCs AND NPCs ... Crits will more often occur AGAINST your PCs than they will FOR, since there are far more enemies rolling attacks, so statistical likelihood is a lot higher that crits are a BAD thing or course, only a certain set of NPCs get extra damage, while you likely have at least one PC who is always applicable, and not all attacks get that bonus.. but... whatever), rule to roll extra damage.. if you want lethal crits from creatures/PCs who can take advantage of weak points, max everything (minus crit-specific damage).If you want to make the PCs feel powerful, give them special treatment, and only let THEIR crits max everything, and NPC crits roll extra... whatever, it's your world, do what you want.
And while the system is supposed to be balanced for this or that... crits are rare enough special cases that changing the way they work in your campaign won't have any significant overall impact, it'll just affect the burst points, and make things more or less tense depending on how you run it.
And if you are a player playing under a DM who thinks differently than you... debate it outside of session times, and go with his ruling... sometimes the world doesn't work the way you wish it would. Live with his version of reality while you exist in his world and move on.
It's not worth arguing over if his mind is set, but you still can state your opinion, as long as it isn't bogging down the game.All my own opinion, I'm sure most likely YOURS is different... which is great, I like to be unique.
Confirmed on Twitter
Confirmed as maximized by Mike Mearl on twitter:
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/2134206722
Confirmed as maximized by Mike Mearl on twitter:
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/2134206722
