If you still have your 4th edition books, I do hope that you take them back and get a refund. I also hope that the opposition to 4th edition doesn't let their shortsightedness and selfishness get in the way of new players coming to the genre and scaring them off with their fanatical and vehement enthusiasm against the updated 4E Realms and other components of 4th edition.
I dislike the high level NPCs who just sat there stagnant out of fear of the other high level NPCs (which is what I got mostly from their flavor text, and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Player's Guide to Faerun), the only one I really liked was the guy from Undermountain just because he was crazy. I disliked the deities, for much of the same reasons and the more there are the more overlap you have and the more cumbersome the entire cosmology gets, with the removal of so many deities from there, it allows for more growth both in history and gameplay for the remaining deities. Now as far as the depth of the actual setting for Forgotten Realms, if it didn't rely as heavily as it does on Novels as it does to have depth and history, in my opinion, it would have made it more appealing since the story telling part (to give depth) is the job of the DM, the history could have (and was in part) written more in the actual setting books and the various other splat/accessory books for the setting. Now about that bad news, how's it bad?
I am also wondering how much of the changes to 4E realms will actually happen without having anything physical to hold and read with the release date sometime in August for the actual book reather than listening to speculation after speculation of what might be coming and what might not be coming in the near or distant future for any particular product until previews and the actual product are released. I could have missed articles relating to the 4E realms, I might have assumed that anything that is out before the actual product would just be speculation and what could be, an example of this would be the release of the rules and a few other paperback books released to tell people what might happen in 4th edition a few weeks before the actual release of the product.
Now as for 4E being a money grab, I'll also quote Ed.
Ed Greedwood said:
The cheap and easy answer to what I'd like to see from Realms fans is of course that you folks buy everything, in ever-increasing numbers, so that everyone ends up rich (uh, except your wallets), and TSR continues to publish the Realms with enthusiasm forever.
That was the short version, this is a little bit more to what he wants from the Realms
Ed Greedwood said:
The real answer is that I'd like to go to my grave (preferably a long time from now) knowing the Realms will outlive me and carry on giving enjoyment to many people after I'm gone. I desire this not out of a deep need for immortality (I don't care if folks remember ME, just that they go on using the Realms), but to know that a creation intended purely to give joy is soldiering on...because that means an ongoing fellowship of shared joy, a Good Thing to brighten the lives of some folks, in a way that gives imaginations fire and workouts, not (for instance) being a fan of a sports team, where one just watches and pays money to do so, and can't really participate actively.
That was just to be fair.
Could you site the source for that quote by Ed "Those aren't my gods", I have spent about nearly an hour in all of article searches, even went to wiki and D&D wiki without much luck, it would be nice to see if there is any more to that article, thanks in advnace.
Shifting Demographics, the article here within is interesting to say the least, it mentions the same opposition from 2E to 3E amoung other things
Tharivious said:
Unfortunately, WotC has made that impossible to do (especially as it concerns a free-form community like this), by committing so much of the old flavour text into hardlined rules and using the new edition to mangle one of the topselling settings in their catalog. This is the heart of the problem with the changes: In many cases, what used to be flavour has been turned into rules, and those rules are often contrary to the original flavour that has existed for up to 30 years. So, yes, the new edition will cause problems between existing players, and new players who only know 4E, because 4E players won't know what the hell players of old editions are talking about.
Just to make sure, how and where do you mean they changed fluff into hard-lined rules? Besides the complete overhaul of how the general new world was created between the primordial forces of untamed elemental nature and the ordered gods and beings of the astral sea, with the new creation myth the monsters of older editions needed new beginnings as well with the abyss sitting at the center and bottom of the swirling chaos and the nine hells thrown else where in the astral sea.
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Now then, I will begin to wonder how long it will take for a few things to sink into everyone's skull. 4th Edition is D&D, a newer and more stream-lined D&D, but D&D just the same. With the new rule set, system changes, and the new creation myth behind the general setting with civilization being point's of light in a world of darkness, people will be afraid to take the plunge into the new edition's waters and test them out because they are so set in the ways of the old edition and want to call the new edition witches and have another Salem Witch trial happen, perhaps the new edition are heretics and the old guard wants to have a crusade/jihad against it, frankly I say "Bollocks to that!" What I have just wrote may or may not get your blood boiling, take it in measure and ask yourselves what makes Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeon and Dragons. Is it the edition that makes D&D? No, what makes D&D is the illusion of fantasy that everyone can get into after a long hard day of work, sitting around a table eating cold/warm pizza and drinking soda. It is having fun with a group of friends or strangers, being someone or thing that you are not and having (generally) a good time as you sit back and listen to the narration of the Dungeon Master behind his screen with suspense hanging in the air, the thrill of excitement, the dread of almost certain defeat, and the long lasting memories of a good time with friends or strangers who are now friends after one session of gameplay.
We all know that D&D is a fantasy Roleplaying Game, this means that the campaign settings, any of them are not D&D. We could argue that point if you'd like, but its a fact that a campaign setting does not make D&D, it helps with the story since it gives you a setting for which you can tell your story, it can give you characters/places with which to populate your with. With that said, if one does not like the new edition than stay in the old edition that you are most comfortable with (which is repeating what a few others have stated). Now as far as more flagrant disruptions and cries against 4th Edition, its like disrupting a movie, if you don't like it, why hang around? Is it so that you (those against 4E) can ruin the experience for anyone else?
Now if you still don't believe that 4E is not D&D, that means that any edition after 1E is not D&D, since every edition after would not keep to the original to a T, my arguement goes with this list:
Specific Differences. The list is of course the differences both in rules and in the general outline of the game. I care more about the cohesion of rules to gameplay than fluff to gameplay, since fluff does not a d20 system make.
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Now to tackle this WoW issue, D&D is not WoW, that's completely wrong in so many respects. World of Warcraft is Dungeons and Dragons made online and interactive. Its based on the same principles of D&D, it is a game that bases itself around equipment, experience points, dungeons (and it even has dragons!), magic, and a fantasy setting. WoW has random encounters littering its world (they even respawn so you can farm to your hearts content), its every critter that can be attacked and every person that you can talk to in towns (yes, there can be noncombat random encounters). WoW has dungeons that players can form parties with and go crawling into, with rogues there to disable traps, paladins and clerics to heal the party, fighters to take damage and keep the enemies attention on them, as the mage/warlock/hunter pelts them from afar, in the end the party comes out on top and goes back to town to talk about their done deeds with their friends. (How does this not sound or resemble D&D?)
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What else can I include about 4th edition, I have yet to DM a session with 4E, still reading the rules on water and combat therein and referencing back to Stormwrack.
I am currently playing a Human Wizard, now level 2 who travels around with a Dwarven Paladin of Bahamut. We've faced many a Kobold together with two fire beetles and a stirge.
Our latest battle, at level 1 (the encounter brought us up to level 2) was against a 3rd level elite brute whom we called OJ (due to it being an Ochre Jelly, tastes just like marmalade). As combat ensued, it took the dwarven pally a little over 4 rounds of combat to succumb to the wounds inflicted by OJ, my wizard was hanging back and pounding the creature with Freezing Cloud, Icy Terrain, and Ray of Frost. It took it a few rounds and a lot of move actions to get close enough, but then with Thunderwave I moved it out of the way so I could rescue the dwarf with our last remaining potion.
The ensuing battle got even more confusing when another paladin rushed in and was summarily taken out of battle with two critical hits. In the end, our group won the battle and got a safe cave to sleep in for the night. We all had fun and still talk about the encounter.
I like the static (mostly anyways) defenses and how they simplified the saving throw and armor class system, since now all saves are made when a 10 or higher is rolled and failed when you roll below a 9, this gives you a 55% chance of success on saves with different abilities and items changing this number for better or worse. Fortitude (Str or Con), Reflex (Dex or Int), and Will (Wis or Cha) defenses are now more like an Armor Class with the higher values of two ability scores determining which one you use, not only that but with light armors or no armor at all a character can add either their Dex or their Int modifiers to the total value.
With Blast X, Burst X, its now easier to figure out which squares and how many squares are affected since you no longer count two diagnal moves as two squares (example of diagnal movement before 4E: 5, 10-15, 20, 25-30). Combat is now more stream-lined and much faster, more along the lines of how combat is in D&D miniatures.