That would be correct. The newest one posted in the "update" section. However, I've been trying to work on a new update in my spare time, things have just been hectic recently.
4th Edition Bard
That would be correct. The newest one posted in the "update" section. However, I've been trying to work on a new update in my spare time, things have just been hectic recently.
HalWhitewyrm
First Post
Cool. I'll give it a read and see if I can get to play it soon.
StephenHawking
First Post
Our group has played it at 10th.
One was the cha/int focus gnome, I was the dex/cha focus halfling.
The first was cool, fascinate was an interesting control effect for regular monsters, restrained is a nice touch. And with Lingering Song (feat) or Lingering Chorus (utility 10), meant they could lock down 2 creatures, felt very controller-like. On the flipside, at 10th we ran out of encounters pretty fast, and were down to the at wills pretty quickly.
At will for the cha/int focus seemed sad, -2 hit was ok, but the saving throw one was situational. More often than not though, he enjoyed the fascinate lockdown.
Deafened wasn't that handy from Deafening Blast due to the new stealth rules. Pyrotechnics was ok, but the bard ended up using fascinate at range, and daze effect while nice to grant CA wasn't stellar in combat. Did work well vs a ranged monster though, since they couldn't shift and attack.
The dailies of Burst of Awe, Glitterdust, and Soundburst were amazing.
The other one, which I have more experience with was a melee focused halfling with dual wielding rapier. The two weapon line of feats, and nimble blade, and rapier meant I hit as often as any melee'r could especially with powers like Immediate Assistance when needed and keep near max defenses.
I used Distorting Strike vs the other that dazed, weaken was a nice touch on a solo because you're almost gauranteed to get hit by their 1 action, and as a melee bard you're trying to get CA more than not.
Again, I ran out of encounters, but those I did have like tactical precision, as well as Combined Talent, really helped hitting as well as dealing more damage. Also when down to at wills, inciting strike was pretty neat for me and a rogue teamed up vs a brute and took it down faster than a defender and striker did,
All in all, I had more healing, and luckily, didn't get hit due to being a halfling in most encounters. That said, I did have difficulties flanking in an encounter unless I went first, and even +2 vs OAs wasn't enough to keep me safe. So the extra healing kept me on going when I did get hit, and the Lively step for example, could allow me to circle around monsters. Regardless, it seems like I was just providing a +hit like a taclord would but more consistently.
In hindsight, maybe I should've picked a medium sized race and used spike chain or a reach weapon? Not sure if this would've helped my issues, but its definitely a consideration.
Conclusion, fun times by both builds, though I felt a little lackluster as the melee guy, only buffing others really. The cha/int one seemed much more controller like, especially with fascinate as its focus.
One was the cha/int focus gnome, I was the dex/cha focus halfling.
The first was cool, fascinate was an interesting control effect for regular monsters, restrained is a nice touch. And with Lingering Song (feat) or Lingering Chorus (utility 10), meant they could lock down 2 creatures, felt very controller-like. On the flipside, at 10th we ran out of encounters pretty fast, and were down to the at wills pretty quickly.
At will for the cha/int focus seemed sad, -2 hit was ok, but the saving throw one was situational. More often than not though, he enjoyed the fascinate lockdown.
Deafened wasn't that handy from Deafening Blast due to the new stealth rules. Pyrotechnics was ok, but the bard ended up using fascinate at range, and daze effect while nice to grant CA wasn't stellar in combat. Did work well vs a ranged monster though, since they couldn't shift and attack.
The dailies of Burst of Awe, Glitterdust, and Soundburst were amazing.
The other one, which I have more experience with was a melee focused halfling with dual wielding rapier. The two weapon line of feats, and nimble blade, and rapier meant I hit as often as any melee'r could especially with powers like Immediate Assistance when needed and keep near max defenses.
I used Distorting Strike vs the other that dazed, weaken was a nice touch on a solo because you're almost gauranteed to get hit by their 1 action, and as a melee bard you're trying to get CA more than not.
Again, I ran out of encounters, but those I did have like tactical precision, as well as Combined Talent, really helped hitting as well as dealing more damage. Also when down to at wills, inciting strike was pretty neat for me and a rogue teamed up vs a brute and took it down faster than a defender and striker did,
All in all, I had more healing, and luckily, didn't get hit due to being a halfling in most encounters. That said, I did have difficulties flanking in an encounter unless I went first, and even +2 vs OAs wasn't enough to keep me safe. So the extra healing kept me on going when I did get hit, and the Lively step for example, could allow me to circle around monsters. Regardless, it seems like I was just providing a +hit like a taclord would but more consistently.
In hindsight, maybe I should've picked a medium sized race and used spike chain or a reach weapon? Not sure if this would've helped my issues, but its definitely a consideration.
Conclusion, fun times by both builds, though I felt a little lackluster as the melee guy, only buffing others really. The cha/int one seemed much more controller like, especially with fascinate as its focus.
Arius
First Post
I had a chance to play test a couple bard builds recently and I thought I’d share the results. The two characters were intended to be NPCs but with full stats that they might join an adventure occasionally, or as a temporary character in the event of character death, which have been frequent as of late. While the NPCs have only just met the party, I recently ran a one-off for a new player (who played the fighter) and a 3e vet (who played the bard), and these two NPCs were their characters, along with a warmage type staff wizard I threw together played by myself. The one-off opened with a skill challenge followed by 4 combats loosely based off Bordrin’s Watch adventure (WotC).
The first build was a Fighter / Bard multiclass (Eladrin Spear Fighter 5). I picked up a couple Bard powers (Critical Strike and Healing Hymn) that worked nicely to compliment the Fighter powers (Villain’s Menace, Rain of Blows, and Rain of Steel among others) which worked out pretty well. I won’t go into a lot of detail as a 5 level character multiclass doesn’t have much to show, but the other was a pure Bard, musician type build.
The second character was a Half-elf Bard 4 with the following stats:
Alyssa Cloverfield
Good Half-elf Bard 4
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 18
Abilities:
Dilettante: I chose Enfeebling Strike as a Cha based melee should she get in a bad spot.
Bardic Music: Inspire Courage and Fascinating Song.
Feats: Jack of All Trades, Lingering Melody, Raging Storm.
Cantrips: Prestidigitation and Ghost Sound.
At-Wills: Inhibiting Song and Warning Yell.
Encounter: Distracting Shout and Ironthunder Horn.
Daily: Burst of Awe.
Utility: Improvisation.
[Coles notes to follow.]
The opening encounter was the skill challenge (trek across the mountain: complexity 2) where the bard did quite well with a decent amount of trained skills and jack of all trades to boost the rest. It started off bad though with the first two players rolling a natural 1 and 2 for two of three allowed failures. The pressure was on but the group rallied. The challenge required two players to make endurance checks with the highest bonus being held by the wizard (!). The bard player was please to see Improvisation and promptly boosted the second ally while she made her own check (Perception) for a total of three successes. The group went on to victory.
The following encounter had the PCs scaling the fortress walls as the Fighter led the group Climb check up 50 feet and over the top. Once atop the wall the bard suffered her first frustrations. As the Fighter made good use of his longbow and the Wizard used a variety of range attacks including scorching burst and magic missiles, the bard struggled to find a ranged spell with a range greater than 5. Having a low Dex in order to put a few points to Con (what was I thinking) her ranged basic attack was craptacular and the only power with range 10 she had was Fascinating Song, but both other characters were engaging the same group. The rest of the battle for the bard was a lot of misses until the final combatant shoved the Eladrin over the edge of the wall, where he dangled perilously below the remaining orc. A timely Healing Hymn and an Enfeebling Strike saved the day though.
Inside the fortress again the bard was met with frustration as ranged attacks failed and the Wizard and Fighter made short work of enemies from long ranged. As the enemies closed to a close range that she might use more spells, the fighter was quickly overwhelmed by orc fodder and the rest found their way into the secondary ranks. Having found herself stuck in melee with a rather nasty orc she found her first success when she used Ironthunder Horn to blast the enemy and knock it prone. She burned an action point to activate Distracting Shout while her fighter company jumped in with a basic attack and the foe was vanquished. She sat there stunned for a moment, shocked, but at the same time pleased with herself.
As the encounter at the alter came to a close, the party headed down through a secret door into a large underground cathedral. The party tried to be stealthy with the goal to sneaking up on their foes, but as a single orc caught sight of them, the wizard went off and started launching long range spells. The fighter quickly joined in with his longbow while the bard cursed under her breath for not having a better ranged attack. The Fascinating Song missed for the second time and frustration returned.
I suggested looking over her other options pointing out Inspire Courage. After reading it she looked at me and said it’s a standard action, and it gives a +1 to attack and damage for one round, that sucks, why on earth would anybody give up a standard action to use that? I found myself unable to argue the point, it was a minor buff with a short term and no other effect (as the fear save thing is quite situational and would rarely apply). Having become irritated by the whole thing, she leaped over the side of the stairs targeting the nearest orc and landing square on top of him before standing back up and throwing off a Healing Hymn.
It is here the battle got slightly chaotic as the fighter fearing the demise of the bard jumped himself, but a natural one ensures a long fall flat on his face while the wizard juggled between Bigby’s Icy Grasp and Flaming Sphere to the clear the stairs. As the melee ensued, the bard made good use of Ironthunder Horn again, as well as Distracting Shout and the paladin power Enfeebling Strike, but not before she dropped a Burst of Awe hammering every enemy in range with a daze and the final Healing Hymn for the fighter. She rounded out the encounter with an Improvisation and a few At-Wills as the party mopped up the surviving orcs.
Cole’s Notes / Summary:
All in all, she had mixed feelings about the bard (and 4e in general), part of that was the range of powers combined with the crappy ranged attack (which is obviously build based) and although she liked some of the powers, especially the encounter powers I chose, she was thoroughly unimpressed by the Bardic Music ones.
She found the At-Wills mediocre, and although they are obviously the least powerful spells, the Warning Yell was very situational (and we didn’t really fight many controller types except the Witch Doctor who got thoroughly felt up by Bigby’s Hand) and the Inhibiting Song wasn’t much to write home about.
She especially like the encounter powers, Ironthunder Horn being the favorite with the high damage / prone combo, and team inspired Distracting Shout in a close second.
The daily Burst of Awe was a life saver, especially when combined with the daily effect of her Horn of Life implement (as holy symbol), and combined with the Healing Hymn as a minor action was able to keep the group going without being the healing machine that was required in previous editions.
The utility power Improvisation didn’t see a lot of use, but it wasn’t until the final encounter that she realized it was a minor action to cast, and noted that she would have made better use of that power had she known sooner.
Lastly the Bardic Music effects were a sore spot to say the least, and she had the following suggestions (some of which may have been already discussed so my apologies if so).
The Fascinating Song would have been cool if she had got it off, but it really seemed to lack staying power even if you did. I wonder if a combo of sustain minor, and save ends (to force it to end prematurely) would work better.
For Inspire Courage, as a standard action buff that does no damage or meaningful secondary effect and only lasts one round, it needs some help. My suggestion would be to leave it as is but make it a minor action, or better yet, increase the bonus by 1 (making it +2/3/4) or half Int modifier, and make it sustainable (either sustain minor, or sustain move or something).
I hope the feedback helps and thanks again Saric for your efforts!
Edit:
I noticed that in my haste building this character, I seemed to have changed my stats and no longer qualify for the feat Raging Storm. Stats have been adjusted to correct, and I shifted a few of those Con/Wis points to Dex for use with a bow.
Last edited:
HalWhitewyrm
First Post
Thanks for those (extensive) notes, Arius.
Arius
First Post
@HalWhitewyrm - No problem, i hope it was helpful, if a little long winded.
With respect to the bard class, I wonder if an at-will with a range of 10-20 is in order for the bard. The cleric has at range at-wills with range 5 while the warlord has one with no range limitation, and both also have superior armor proficiencies compared to the bard. Say for instance ...
Sonic Orb
At-Will * Arcane, Implement, Thunder
Standard Action Range 20
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier thunder damage.
Any thoughts?
Hi Saric! I'm an italian player and I translated yuor wonderful work in my language. Can I post it in my blog (with all the credits of course
)?
I'm plaing the bard in the Keep of the shadowfell and it seems to be very balance whit the other class in the core manual.
Thank you for this class
)?I'm plaing the bard in the Keep of the shadowfell and it seems to be very balance whit the other class in the core manual.
Thank you for this class
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
I like the idea of this class, but the powers are all far above and beyond the Core class abilities. I believe the Bard should be the Jack of all Trades and Master of none.
As written, this bard is the Jack of all Trades.... and better at it than the other guys.
One of my players is looking to use this class, so I suggested some toning down of the abilities he is looking to use. I post them here for input and help making this class one that isn't the best man at the party.
REad here for a short summation of what the problems I see in the class:
[sblock]
Wow... ouch..
I am still kinda new at the balance of 4e, but there are a number of things in this class that just jump out at me.
Inciting Strike: At will attack that deal damage and grants Temp hp
Critical Strike, Bard 1 Encounter
1[w]+mod, all allies within 3 gain +2 to hit target and one ally w/in 5 can spend a healing surge
Vs
Lions Roar, Warlord 7 Encounter
2[W]+mod, you or one ally w/in 5 can spend a healing surge
Accelerated Strike, Bard 1 Daily
3[w]+ mod and allies w/in 5 can shift as minor for remainder of encounter
Vs
Brute Strike, Fighter 1 Daily
3[W] + mod
Raging Pulse, Bard 6 Daily Utility
Burst 5, all allies w/ range gain temp hp, -1 to AC and +1 to attacks, damage, and will Def until end of encounter.
Vs
Hallowed Circle, Paladin 5 Daily
Burst 3, creates zone where allies gain +1 bonus to all defenses. Zone last until end of encounter or until dispelled.
These are the ones that were obviously 'proud nails'. I didn't go digging into the higher level abilities. This bard class is cool.. IMHO too cool. It has burst effects, boost effects, major healing effects, and some of the heaviest hitting weapon attacks in the game. Basically it’s a better X than X is, with the possible exception of the Striker classes.
[/sblock]
My apologies for the formatting.... its taken me longer to figure this out than expected and should be making dinner about an hour ago...
At Wills
Inciting Strike
Hit: 1[W] + Dex mod and mark the target. Allies gain +2 additional damage to melee attacks against the marked target.
Improvised Jab
Hit: 1[W]
Effect: Select one ally within 5. target grants combat advantage to that allies melee attacks until the start of your next turn
Warning Yell
Chr vs Will
Hit 1D8 + Chr mod. Select one ally that is adjacent to the target. That ally gains +2 to defenses from attacks from the target until the start of your next turn.
Encounter
Distracting Shout
Hit: 1D8 + Chr
Change last line. Allies basic attack gains the int bonus to only damage
Iron Thunder Horn
Hit 1D10 + Chr Mod and target is knocked prone
Deafening Blast
Close Blast 5
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack Chr vs Fort
2D6 + Chr mod, target is deafened (Save ends)
Effect: glass in the area of effect shatters
Dailies:
Immediate Assistance
Trigger: An ally within 5 squares is hit by a melee attack
Attack: Chr vs Will
Hit 2D6 + Chr mod
Effect: Target is weakened until the start of your next turn.
Sonic Weapon
Daily Arcane*Thunder*weapon Close Blast 3
Standard action Must be wielding a melee weapon
Attack: Chr vs Fort.
Hit: 3[w] + Chr mod and you push the target a number of squares equal to your wisdom mod.
Miss: Half damage
Sound Burst:
Attack Chr vs Fort
Hit: 2D8 + Chr mod and Dazed (save ends)
Miss: Half Damage
Sustain: Move action. Dazed targets suffer a penalty to their save equal to your Int Mod
Utilities:
Inspirational Boost
Encounter: Move action Close burst 5
Effect: Allies within 5 squares of you gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Chr mod
Heroism
Effect: Target may make an immediate save to shake off ongoing effects as a free action
Target may spend a healing surge as a free action
Bardic Music:
Countersong
As written
Inspire Courage
power bonus to attack only.
Immediate save against a persistant [Fear] effect
Sustain: Move action
Fascinating Song
Hit: target is immobilized and cannot take attacks against the Bard until the end of your next turn.
Sustain: Standard Action
Special: The target gains an immediate save against this effect each time it is attacked by you or your ally.
Inspire Competence:
Select a skill you have training in. Allies within range gain a +2 power bonus to their skill checks for that skill until the end of your next turn or until the end of the skill challenge phase.
Healing Hymn
Encounter: Arcane/Healing
Minor Action. Close Burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: Target gains temporary hit points as if they had spent a healing surge and an additional +1D6.
You can target one additional ally at 7th level, two additional at 14th level, three additional at 21st level, and four additional at 28th level.
As written, this bard is the Jack of all Trades.... and better at it than the other guys.
One of my players is looking to use this class, so I suggested some toning down of the abilities he is looking to use. I post them here for input and help making this class one that isn't the best man at the party.
REad here for a short summation of what the problems I see in the class:
[sblock]
Wow... ouch..
I am still kinda new at the balance of 4e, but there are a number of things in this class that just jump out at me.
Inciting Strike: At will attack that deal damage and grants Temp hp
Critical Strike, Bard 1 Encounter
1[w]+mod, all allies within 3 gain +2 to hit target and one ally w/in 5 can spend a healing surge
Vs
Lions Roar, Warlord 7 Encounter
2[W]+mod, you or one ally w/in 5 can spend a healing surge
Accelerated Strike, Bard 1 Daily
3[w]+ mod and allies w/in 5 can shift as minor for remainder of encounter
Vs
Brute Strike, Fighter 1 Daily
3[W] + mod
Raging Pulse, Bard 6 Daily Utility
Burst 5, all allies w/ range gain temp hp, -1 to AC and +1 to attacks, damage, and will Def until end of encounter.
Vs
Hallowed Circle, Paladin 5 Daily
Burst 3, creates zone where allies gain +1 bonus to all defenses. Zone last until end of encounter or until dispelled.
These are the ones that were obviously 'proud nails'. I didn't go digging into the higher level abilities. This bard class is cool.. IMHO too cool. It has burst effects, boost effects, major healing effects, and some of the heaviest hitting weapon attacks in the game. Basically it’s a better X than X is, with the possible exception of the Striker classes.
[/sblock]
My apologies for the formatting.... its taken me longer to figure this out than expected and should be making dinner about an hour ago...
At Wills
Inciting Strike
Hit: 1[W] + Dex mod and mark the target. Allies gain +2 additional damage to melee attacks against the marked target.
Improvised Jab
Hit: 1[W]
Effect: Select one ally within 5. target grants combat advantage to that allies melee attacks until the start of your next turn
Warning Yell
Chr vs Will
Hit 1D8 + Chr mod. Select one ally that is adjacent to the target. That ally gains +2 to defenses from attacks from the target until the start of your next turn.
Encounter
Distracting Shout
Hit: 1D8 + Chr
Change last line. Allies basic attack gains the int bonus to only damage
Iron Thunder Horn
Hit 1D10 + Chr Mod and target is knocked prone
Deafening Blast
Close Blast 5
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack Chr vs Fort
2D6 + Chr mod, target is deafened (Save ends)
Effect: glass in the area of effect shatters
Dailies:
Immediate Assistance
Trigger: An ally within 5 squares is hit by a melee attack
Attack: Chr vs Will
Hit 2D6 + Chr mod
Effect: Target is weakened until the start of your next turn.
Sonic Weapon
Daily Arcane*Thunder*weapon Close Blast 3
Standard action Must be wielding a melee weapon
Attack: Chr vs Fort.
Hit: 3[w] + Chr mod and you push the target a number of squares equal to your wisdom mod.
Miss: Half damage
Sound Burst:
Attack Chr vs Fort
Hit: 2D8 + Chr mod and Dazed (save ends)
Miss: Half Damage
Sustain: Move action. Dazed targets suffer a penalty to their save equal to your Int Mod
Utilities:
Inspirational Boost
Encounter: Move action Close burst 5
Effect: Allies within 5 squares of you gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Chr mod
Heroism
Effect: Target may make an immediate save to shake off ongoing effects as a free action
Target may spend a healing surge as a free action
Bardic Music:
Countersong
As written
Inspire Courage
power bonus to attack only.
Immediate save against a persistant [Fear] effect
Sustain: Move action
Fascinating Song
Hit: target is immobilized and cannot take attacks against the Bard until the end of your next turn.
Sustain: Standard Action
Special: The target gains an immediate save against this effect each time it is attacked by you or your ally.
Inspire Competence:
Select a skill you have training in. Allies within range gain a +2 power bonus to their skill checks for that skill until the end of your next turn or until the end of the skill challenge phase.
Healing Hymn
Encounter: Arcane/Healing
Minor Action. Close Burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: Target gains temporary hit points as if they had spent a healing surge and an additional +1D6.
You can target one additional ally at 7th level, two additional at 14th level, three additional at 21st level, and four additional at 28th level.
Old Gumphrey
First Post
I'm not going through all that, because it's not my class, but I'll say that the cleric has an at-will that grants temporary HP, and he can do it from 5 squares, so I don't really see the big deal?
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
Old Gumphrey, Thanks! I missed that one.
So the concept of temp hit points as an at-will is in the Core... but that leads to the next concern...
How much of the bard presented here cherry picks the best of out of other classes?
Many of the powers are simply renamed versions of other class powers...
Anyway, it looks like I will be starting from scratch and building my own Bard class instead of trying to rejigger this one.
Thanks for the input.
So the concept of temp hit points as an at-will is in the Core... but that leads to the next concern...
How much of the bard presented here cherry picks the best of out of other classes?
Many of the powers are simply renamed versions of other class powers...
Anyway, it looks like I will be starting from scratch and building my own Bard class instead of trying to rejigger this one.
Thanks for the input.
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