You reap what you sow - GSL.

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Darrin Drader

Explorer
Warlord Ralts said:
Hi Darrin!

What kind of off-topic post is that? ;)

Erik Mona said:
This strikes me as a particularly 20th century way of looking at open systems. I can certainly understand the impulse that might inspire WotC to feel like they were being cheated out of something by a company that simply reprinted their core system, but the fact of the matter is that Mongoose sold, at best, 10,000 copies of that book. Vs. the "Real" Player's Handbook, which probably moved something like 350,000 units. Sure, that easily seen as cutting into WotC's pie, but it's really not that significant a chunk of their expected profits for the book, and surely most of Mongoose's audience owned the real Player's Handbook anyway.

In fact, for a customer to have such an exotic D&D fetish as to A) know about and B) purchase the Pocket Player's Handbook the chances are very high that the buyer owns not just the Player's Handbook, but probably the entire core rules and a brace of expensive hardcover support volumes direct from Wizards of the Coast.

The Pocket Player's Handbook amounts to a vanity press effort before the mighty juggernaut of WotC's publishing operation, especially on the scale of the core rulebooks.

Several years later, the entire text of the SRD is available for free online in a searchable format. How silly it seems in this environment to scapegoat the Pocket Player's Handbook as some sort of affront to the concept of the OGL or threat to Dungeons & Dragons.

The OGL is about preserving the system and opening the "lingua franca" of 30 years of gaming history to independent development. It can survive existing for free on the internet, and it can survive a cheap and dirty reprint of the SRD.

As usual, I find much wisdom here. When D20 was at it's peak (pre 3.5), the larger publishers that I was familiar with at the time were trying to build up to 5,000 copies of their titles sold.... then came the crash. I don't know everybody's sales numbers, nor would I divulge them if I did know, but I would be very surprised if there were very many products at all that broke the 5,000 mark after the release of 3.5. I could see maybe Ptolus, the Pathfinder adventure paths, Iron Heroes, and maybe some of the Freeport titles doing this, but I'm certain that the majority of the OGL games and D20 accessories didn't come close to that mark.
 

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Sonny

Adventurer
Erik Mona said:
Several years later, the entire text of the SRD is available for free online in a searchable format. How silly it seems in this environment to scapegoat the Pocket Player's Handbook as some sort of affront to the concept of the OGL or threat to Dungeons & Dragons.

The OGL is about preserving the system and opening the "lingua franca" of 30 years of gaming history to independent development. It can survive existing for free on the internet, and it can survive a cheap and dirty reprint of the SRD.
I think it's more a way of convincing the higher ups that alternate player's handbooks were good for the company. Look at World of Warcraft, it's first edition required Player's Handbook, the second edition ditched it entirely.

A hot property that required WOTC products is a win, a hot product that uses the 3e system without the core rulebooks, isn't really appealing. And tough to show how it benifits Hasbro.

I'm sure you already looked at that angle though. Still, it seems products like that were going to cause Hasbro to be a bit more careful when developing the next iteration of the SRD. It's not a blame game. A third party company did what it was allowed to do to maximize their profits, and now WOTC is doing what it can do maximize it's own.

That being said, I'm worried that we won't see as many steller third party products as in days gone by due to the restrictiveness of the new license.




PS: You're one of my favorite game designers, and I just wanted to say thank you for all your hard work and great products throughout the years. :)
 


neceros

Adventurer
Let's be fair: The people being punished here are the DMs and Players of the system, not the publishers. They will continue to write for whoever they can, but the end user is the one who loses out on content.
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
Warlord Ralts said:
Has anyone ACTUALLY been denied?

Do some Google searches for "OGC Wiki" and you'll gain some insight on which publishers were firmly for using the OGL to their own advantage but firmly against letting anybody re-use their content (even material that had been designated as OGC).

Basically, Mike Mearls proposed an OGC wiki as a fan/publisher resource, and a bunch of movers and shakers in the hobby industry blew a gasket, going so far as to state that they did not want any content they had previously declared as OGC reused for such a project.

This is the kind of disingenuous OGC declaration and OGL manipulation that I think Merric alludes to. There was some hardcore wankery involved.
 
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jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
neceros said:
Let's be fair: The people being punished here are the DMs and Players of the system, not the publishers. They will continue to write for whoever they can. . .

Publishers don't write games unless they're of the 'one man operation' variety. Designers and authors typically write games, while publishers merely. . . er. . . publish them. That said, yeah, this won't hurt many designers or authors. I think that there is a good chance that it will hurt more than a few publishers in the long run.
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
jdrakeh said:
Basically, Mike Mearls proposed an OGC wiki as a fan/publisher resource, and a bunch of movers and shakers in the hobby industry blew a gasket, going so far as to state that they did not want any content they had previously declared as OGC reused for such a project.
Link to Mearls' post... - for the context.

Cheers, LT.
 

Ralts Bloodthorne

First Post
Oh man, now I remember that. I got in some serious flame wars over that. I think at one point I called some pretty "big shots" a bunch of cowards if I remember right, and even got banned on another board for calling some people a bunch of RIAA wannabes.

I'd forgotten the epic whining and tantrums around the Wiki discussion.
 


jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
cangrejoide said:
Wow I just read that, and thats from 2005. So who did back out? What companies/publishers did not want to cooperate with OGC wiki?

Use more Google. Search for the terms that I suggest above.
 

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