Conversions Middle Earth D20 Conversion - Page 15


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    Racial bonuses: a thought

    Hi Colonel,

    Thanks for the response. I agree that the elves are hardy folk. I decided to play around with the bonuses, and compare the enhanced elves with a PH elf monk (sounds weird, but indulge me).

    Ignore PH bonuses, which all have (listen, spot, search, immune sleep, low light, languages, elf weapons)

    monk: HD 1d8, attack bonus +0
    Colonel: no extra hd, attack bonus +0
    Wolfspider: no extra hd, attack bonus +0

    First level monk: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
    Colonel's Silvan elves: +2 fire, +2 cold, +2 poison
    Wolfspider's Silvan elves: +2 fire, +2 cold, immune enchantment

    monk: 16 skill points
    Colonel: +2 Perform, +2 Wilderness Lore, +2 Listen/Spot (in addition to PH bonus, right?)
    Wolfspider: +4 Perform, +4 WL, +4 Knowledge (nature)

    monk: Improved Unarmed Strike, Evasion, Stunning Attack, Wisdom bonus to AC
    Colonel: immune disease, immune scarring, immune to natural fear, fear of undead; mindlink to other elves
    Wolfspider: immune disease, eliminate Con penalty, Wis +2

    You'll notice I didn't compare a second level monk to a first level enhanced Silvan elf. If the elf gets the normal bonuses of a first level character (skill pointsx4, feat), this might even the playing field (monk would get additional HD, +1 to all saves, +1 attack bonus, and Deflect Arrows feat). Then it's mostly a question of comparing the abilities and feats in the fourth section.

    What I would suggest as an alternative would be to treat the Silvan elf as a first level character (with 1d8 HD), such that their first class level is treated like multiclassing (skill points aren't multiplied, no first level feat). Then a Silvan elf with two class levels would receive the bonus feat (because they have three character levels), with three class levels would receive the ability boost, and so on. I believe this is how the DMG handles ogres, minotaurs, and mind flayers, for example.

    I'm going to compare Sindar with second-level monks and Noldor with third-level monks and report back.

    Derek

 

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    Racial bonuses: continued

    Ok, after some work, I'd like to present the following conversion of the races (blending Colonel's and Wolfspider's and my comparison with elf monks). The format is similar to the NPC section in the DMG. I didn't mention aging or languages, but assume they are there. They also don't have the immunity to fear of undead, magic skills, or mindlink (for various reasons), although these could be added by those who want to use them.


    ------------------------------------
    Avari: +1 ECL. +2 Dex, +2 Wis. +1d8 HD. +2 Fort, +2 Ref, +2 Will. -3 ranks/skill, +4 Listen, +4 Spot, +4 Search, +2 Perform, +4 Wilderness Lore, +4 Knowledge (nature). Immunity to disease. Immunity to sleep. Low light vision. Elven Weapon Proficiencies. Run.

    Sindar: +2 ECL. +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Chr. +2d8 HD. +1 base attack. +3 Fort, +3 Ref, +3 Will. -3 ranks/skill, +4 Listen, +4 Spot, +4 Search, +4 Perform, +4 Swim, +4 Profession (sailor), +4 Craft (shipwright). Immunity to disease. Immunity to sleep. Low light vision. Elven Weapon Proficiencies. Run.

    Noldor: +3 ECL. +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Chr. +3d8 HD. +2 base attack. +3 Fort, +3 Ref, +3 Will. -3 ranks/skill, +4 Listen, +4 Spot, +4 Search, +4 Perform, +6 Appraise, +6 Craft (any). Immunity to disease. Immunity to sleep. Low light vision. Elven Weapon Proficiencies. Run.

    Half-Elves: +1 ECL. +2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Chr. +1d8 HD. +2 Fort, +2 Ref, +2 Will. +1 Listen, +1 Spot, +1 Search. Immunity to sleep. Low light vision. Bonus feat. Bonus skill points (as human). Skill points multiplied at first level.
    -----------------------------------------


    I matched the monk HD, base attack, and skill points. I then noted that a first level monk would have five special abilities, a second level would have six, a third level eight (counting the bonus feats). For the elves, these became:

    Avari: no con penalty, +2 wis, immune disease, run (I stiffed them one ability)
    Half-elves: +2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Chr, bonus feat, bonus skill pts
    Sindar: as Avari, +2 Chr, +2 Int
    Noldor: as Sindar, another +2 Chr, +2 Str, +2 Con, -4 skill pts

    On the whole, I think I ended up making them tougher (which was not my intention ). Operating on the assumption that raising an ability score by 2 is equivalent to a special ability or feat may be a bad idea. However, it was a fun exercise, and compare the Noldor to the DMG Bugbear:

    Bugbear: +3 ECL. +4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha, +3d8 HD. +2 base attack. +1 Fort, +3 Ref, +1 Will. +3 natural armor. -3 ranks/skill. +2 Climb, +2 Hide, +1 Listen, +1 Move Silently, +1 Spot. Alertness. Weapon Proficiency. Darkvision.

    The Noldor would have more skills and better saves, but the bugbear gets natural armor and darkvision. The Noldor probably has the edge, but it's close.

    Well, let me know what you think. I appreciate the work that has been done before.

    Derek

    P.S. What's the literary reference for the mindlink ability? I saw mentions of the movie, but can't remember if it was more than that.
    Last edited by GruTheWanderer; Tuesday, 26th February, 2002 at 10:12 PM.

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    Hey, Gru: I like your versions a lot. Quite powerful, but that's not unwarranted...

    Originally posted by GruTheWanderer
    What's the literary reference for the mindlink ability? I saw mentions of the movie, but can't remember if it was more than that.
    Don't have my books around right now (I'm at work), but I know the most oft-cited instance occurs near the end of RotK, where Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, and Gandalf sit around for a few hours one night (I think on their journey north from Gondor through Rohan), their thoughts "flitting" directly from one mind to another. Can't remember the quote exactly, but the description of the scene takes up a few lines at the beginning of a paragraph, stressing the fact that none actually move a muscle or speak the entire time, and that their conversation is actually much quicker and more efficient this way, if I recall. Somebody can probably give you a page reference if they've got their book handy.

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    Re: Racial bonuses: continued

    Originally posted by GruTheWanderer
    P.S. What's the literary reference for the mindlink ability? I saw mentions of the movie, but can't remember if it was more than that.
    The most prominent place it is mentioned is in "Many Partings" in "The Return of the King," in regards to Celeborn, Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf (emphasis mine):

    Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep they would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labours in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with mouth, looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph Stilwell

  • #145
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    I think it might be good to note that anything I post won't reference the movie; I haven't seen it yet.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph Stilwell

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    Thanks for the reference

    Colonel and Baron,

    Thanks for pointing that out. It never ceases to amaze me how the memory works. I've read ROTK several times, but that paragraph never made an impression on me.

    I'm adjusting my race conversions slightly. I think +2 to Str, Dex, or Con is worth two feats. I'm lowering the spot, listen, and search of Silvan and Sindar to +3, and lowering the craft and appraise of Noldor to +4.

    Derek

    P.S. Wow, you haven't seen the movie yet. Avoidance or patience?

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    I'm not avoding it; I just haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. I will, soon.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph Stilwell

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    I'm not avoding it; I just haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. I will, soon.
    If you wait till the middle of March or so, you'll be able to see the trailer for The Two Towers that Jackson is going to add.
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    Gru:

    Concerning your conversion of Celebrimbor, I always considered Feanor and his scions to be absolutely brilliant but very unwise. Thus I think you might want to switch the Intelligence and Wisdom scores that you gave him. Of course, you made him a cleric, which would mean he'd have to have a high Wisdom. In my (yet unpublished) conversion (it's just a list right now), I make him a high level Expert (using the special rules from my conversion). He was a master craftsman, second only to his grandfather Feanor among the Elves.
    Last edited by Wolfspider; Thursday, 28th February, 2002 at 02:13 PM.
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    Re: Celebrimbor

    Spider,

    I agree, wisdom and the Noldor don't go hand in hand. I'm trying to stick close to the standard D&D rules, which leads to some contradictions. I could make Celebrimbor a sorceror (he's certainly supposed to be charismatic). I like your expert class as an alternative for PCs. Do you still use the generic expert class for minor NPCs?

    Tell us who else is on the yet unpublished list? I'm curious what other characters from the stories you've thought about.

    Derek

    P.S. FYI, In the future I'm going to assume that everyone participating in this forum has read the Silmarillion. I know I've bristled a few times when people's comments have implied that I haven't read it (silly intellectual pride). I've made similar comments in some of my posts, so I apologize if I've offended anyone.

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