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  1. #161
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    Forgot to add

    I see Gandalf and the other Istari around levels 15-20. Capable of great power under D&D rules, but nothing epic. I'm in agreement with someone who posted here that some of the figures in the First Age may have reached epic levels (fresh from the light of Aman), but on the whole I prefer a low power campaign. Nothing like the Forgotten Realms, for instance.

    As for the Balrog, I like the idea from the previous board of using an Elder Fire Elemental with the Fiendish Template. That gives you a CR 13 creature with DR 20/+3 and SR 25 and a smite good attack 1/day that does +24 points of damage. Impressive enough to thwart the likes of Aragorn and Boromir, but within reach of Gandalf and the heroes of the first age.

    Since my campaign is in the Second Age, I won't have to worry about Gandalf, although I may place a Balrog in my player's path.

    Derek

    Spider, I can neither confirm nor deny your guess (in case my players are reading this).

 

  • #162
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    Wolfspider, how do you see various Middle Earth characters in your conversion, could you list their levels and classes?
    Well, I've made them much higher level than you have, but that's just a matter of taste. Some of them are epic level, and since the epic level handbook hasn't been released yet, I am hesitant to give them levels higher than twenty because I don't really know what they mean.

    But here's what I'm thinking so far.

    The Good Guys

    Gandalf the Grey (Expert 18, focusing on magical skills)
    Gandalf the White (Epic level Expert)
    Elrond (Fighter 4, Expert 16)
    Galadriel (Epic level Noble)
    Celeborn (Noble 18)
    Celebrimbor (Epic level Expert)
    Legolas (Fighter 6, Order of the Bow Initiate 6)
    Gimli (Fighter 10)
    Boromir (Fighter 6, Noble 4)
    Faramir (Woodsman 6, Fighter 4)
    Strider (Woodsman 8, Fighter 4, Noble 2)
    King Ellesar (Woodsman 8, Fighter 4, Noble 6)
    Denethor (Noble 10, Expert 4)

    The Bad Guys

    Sauron (Epic level Expert and fighter)
    Saruman the White (Expert 20, focusing on magical skills)
    Lord of the Nazgul (Fighter 16, Expert 4)
    Other Nazgul (Fighter 12-14, Expert 2-4)
    Mouth of Sauron (Figher 2, Expert 12)

    As you can see, I see the Expert class as being quite common, representing any particular focus, from magic to herbology to whatever.

    Anywhere, my list is nowhere near complete, and these are just rough numbers in any case. Feel free to comment on them.
    Wolfspider

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  • #163
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    duh. Just figured it out.
    Last edited by ColonelHardisson; Saturday, 2nd March, 2002 at 05:50 PM.
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  • #164
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    This is a comment regarding Wolfspider's character level breakdown. I always had the impression that Boromir was second in skill as a warrior only to Aragorn in the Fellowship. Gimli and Legolas always struck me as being good, but not as good as Boromir. Just my own perception of it.

    EDIT: Added the word "not."
    Last edited by ColonelHardisson; Saturday, 2nd March, 2002 at 06:58 PM.
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  • #165
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    This is a comment regarding Wolfspider's character level breakdown. I always had the impression that Boromir was second in skill as a warrior only to Aragorn in the Fellowship. Gimli and Legolas always struck me as being good, but as good as Boromir. Just my own perception of it.
    You may be right...let me mull a bit.

    *mulls*

    OK.

    Perhaps fighter 8, noble 4 then?

    duh. Just figured it out.
    Hmmm?
    Last edited by Wolfspider; Saturday, 2nd March, 2002 at 06:46 PM.
    Wolfspider

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  • #166
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    Sorry - I meant Legolas and Gimli were NOT as good as Boromir. I edited my post above.

    The other post I deleted above had to do with the Expert class and the creation of magic items. I re-read your Middle Earth d20 magic rules and understood.
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  • #167
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    There's one thing that's still nagging at me, though: why are there so many extensive rule changes away from D&D's standard? This is not at all how I see it; for my purposes, much of playing ME is an issue of flavor and not substance.
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  • #168
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    Which rules changes are you speaking of? I know that in my own conversion that the bulk of it is really just a matter of new - or adjusted - character races, done to reflect what Tolkien wrote, and a list of spells not appropriate to Middle Earth, meaning that Tolkien never wrote about anything resembling them.

    Sure, it really is more of a matter of flavor, but a lot of folk find that the D&D standard doesn't exactly reflect the flavor of Middle Earth. Otherwise, there would be no call for threads like these or sites like the one hosted here at EN World.

    If you like using the D&D standard for Middle Earth, that's great. But creating threads and websites that say "Middle Earth d20 should simply use the D&D standard" would be kind of pointless. If you'd like to write an essay on using the D&D standard for Middle Earth, that would be fantastic, though - we'd love to post something like that on the site!
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  • #169
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    There's one thing that's still nagging at me, though: why are there so many extensive rule changes away from D&D's standard? This is not at all how I see it; for my purposes, much of playing ME is an issue of flavor and not substance.
    Well, the most extensive change that I've instituted in my conversion is an alternate magic system that still uses many of the standard D&D spells but groups them into lists and makes spellcasting skill-based. Yeah, it's a pretty radical change from standard D&D, but I think it provides the kind of flavor necessary to reflect the Middle Earth setting. I've also adopted a few things from other D20 games, like the VP/WP system from Star Wars.

    I, too, would be interested in seeing a list of rule changes that you think are unnecessary. I'm all for keeping things as simple as possible, but I still want to capture the essence of what makes Middle Earth different and special.
    Wolfspider

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  • #170
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    Rule changes

    Colonel, I'm reading your last message as if written with a huge .

    Corinth, I'll second the Colonel's question. Which extensive changes are you referring to? My treatment of classes? Wolfspider's magic system? IMO, the changes aren't that different than that required by other campaign worlds like Athas or even published in campaign materials like Oriental Adventures.

    On the other hand, having so many people post alternatives allows DMs to pick and choose. I'm not going to use wound point/vitality point systems in my campaigns, but I don't mind seeing people discuss them.

    Derek

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