Conversions Middle Earth D20 Conversion - Page 8




  1. #71
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    RB: Actually, the table was decipherable, but I will e-mail you for the word version.

    I've been pondering the relative technologies of Middle-Earth and, of course, no blanket statement is possible. I was wondering if it would be useful if some generic kind of "tech level" table would be useful - perhaps with a cultural element as well. Note that this is how *I* see it: others may have a different opinion. It deals primarily with military organization, although other random notes are thrown in too. I'll start with Rohan and Gondor.


    Rohan

    Society based on an Anglo-Saxon Model: land-owning freemen who take up arms in times of war. Loose government. Ideas of a hearthguard (household knights of Meduseld), weregild, warrior-ideal, a ring-giving king who bestows his favours generously, alliterative poetry recounting heroic exploits. The Mead -Hall as the cultural/administrative and ruling centre (Meduseld = "Mead Hall"). The twist is in the reliance on cavalry - something alien to the historical Anglo-Saxons. Perhaps a Norman or Carolingian slant. Many of the Rohirrim wore fine mail armour that was a gift from Gondor. I'd assume that the "mearas" were heavy warhorses, but with the speed of a light horse.

    Household Knight, Thane or Nobleman: Full mail suit. Large Round Shield. Conical Helm. Heavy Warhorse. Lance. Longsword. Possibly lots of MW items (e.g. "named" swords, such as Guthwine).

    Typical Rider: Hauberk. Large Round Shield. Conical Helm. Heavy Warhorse. Lance. Longsword.

    Horsed Archer Auxillary: (Speculative: Studded. Small Shield. Longsword). Shortbow (composite?). Light warhorse.

    The archers are canonical, in that they appear in Tolkien's work. Presumably, other mounted auxilliaries (scouts, skirmishers etc.) existed as well. Note that when dismounted at the Pelennor, the Rohirrim formed a "shield wall" - this is another Anglo-Saxon tactic, and is ONLY possible with a large shield (2 1/2 - 3 ft wide). The basic unit of deployment was the "eored" - around 120 men, although the size actually varied somewhat. Technically, the eored is 1/100th of the whole whole muster of Rohan. Historically speaking, I'd place Rohan in the 11th century, but generally pre-castle era: e.g. the Hornburg was built by Gondor.


    Gondor

    Gondor is feudal, with various magnates swearing allegiance to the King or Steward. Numenorean bloodlines are purest amongst the nobility. The centralization of power suggests late, rather than early feudal, however (culturally, not technologically). Considerable variation in troop types:

    Citadel Guard (Speculative): Super-heavy infantry, akin to German Landsknechts or Renaissance Swiss Halberdiers. Half-Plate or Full Plate (?). Halberd. Large Shield. Longsword. The elite of the elite. Probably lots of MW equipment.

    City Cavalry (led by Hurin, Warden of the Keys - Speculative): I'd be inclined to place these in the heavy cavalry group, but not super-heavies like Imrahil's knights. Possibly chain suit, large shield, helm, lance, longsword.

    Knights of Dol Amroth ("a company of knights in full harness"): Full Plate. Shield. Heavy Warhorse. Lance. Longsword or Bastard Sword. Possibly with barding, although I think that's going too far.

    Men-at-Arms of Dol Amroth ("tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired): ROTK doesn't make it clear whether they were mounted or not. I would tend to think not, and would put them in the heavy infantry category: chainmail suit, helm, large shield, longspear, bastard sword. Good support for armoured cavalry.

    Rangers of Ithilien: Leather or studded. Longbow (composite?) (50%) or spear (50%). Longsword. Probably with access to mail in times of war.

    Men of Pinnath Gelin ("gallant green-clad men.") Definitely cavalry, as they ride with Imrahil and Hurin to the succour of Eomer on the Pelennor. The name suggests light cavalry, however. Chain shirt. Small Shield. Helm. Lance. Longsword. Light Warhorse. The obligatory gallant green cloak, of course.

    Men of Lossarnarch ("well armed, and bearing great battle-axes.") Mail Hauberk. Helm. Greataxe. Probably with shield and longsword as well.

    Men of Morthond (semi-speculative): Longbow (definitely). Maybe studded. Longsword also?

 

  • #72
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    Joe Crow - Thanks for the info. Speaking as a lawyer I can't believe that TE's lawyers DONT have anything better to do thank pick on fansites for MERP...Gawd...

    Guess I'll have to get all the MERP products that I dont own before they're all gone. No wonder I paid $50 for Lorien and Elven Smiths!


    Mike
    "I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for The One. We die for The One." Marcus, Babylon 5

  • #73
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    Personally, I'm scouring Ebay trying to pick up a few books that I missed.
    Wolfspider

    Founder of BADD - Bothered About Disposable Dragons

    "Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement." -- Mourn, laying down the law

    "The sins of the previous edition don't excuse the sins of the next." -- Kamikaze Midget, giving words to my thoughts

  • #74
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    Copyright To ME

    I did a search for Middle-earth copyrights and here's what I found.


    Registered Works Database (Title Search)

    Search For: MIDDLE EARTH ROLE PLAYING
    Item 1 of 1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Registration Number: TX-4-081-427
    Title: Middle Earth role playing.
    Edition: Collector's ed., 2nd US ed.
    Imprint: Charlottesville, VA : Iron Crown Enterprises, 1995.
    Description: 264 p.
    Note: Based on J. R. R. Tolkien's The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings.
    Claimant: Saul Zaentz Company (d.b.a. Tolkien Enterprises)
    Created: 1993

    Published: 27Nov93
    Registered: 27Jul95

    Author on Application: text & graphics: Iron Crown Enterprises, Inc., employer for hire.
    Claim Limit: NEW MATTER: derivation, text & graphics.
    Special Codes: 1/B


    Hopefully someone will be able to come up with a clear answer as to if we will be infringing on anyone's rights if we continue with our project.

    Here is a couple of links to coryright law for those who like to read that kind of material:

    http://www.loc.gov/copyright/legislation/dmca.pdf

    http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/

    http://www.loc.gov/copyright/legislation/

    Meanwhile I will continue to convert your excellent works to HTML in hopes that we will be able to share it with the world so....

    Keep it coming.

    Palcadon
    Last edited by Palcadon; Monday, 28th January, 2002 at 06:13 AM.
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    More Armour Thoughts - and Oliphaunts

    I've been scouring the book - you know the one I mean - to find any references to Southron armour, weapons and disposition. Lances and scimitars for the cavalry, definitely, but I found a tract in "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit" which refers to a fallen Southron: "his corselet of overlapping brazen plates was rent and hewn."
    Sounds like banded or scale to me, but is brazen figurative or literal - i.e. do the Haradrim use bronze armour? This book will never cease to amaze me - I must have read it dozens of times, but I've never picked up on this reference before.

    Anyway, the main point is this:

    Mumak (or Oliphaunt)
    Gargantuan Animal

    Hit Dice: 30d8 + 210 (345 hp)
    Initiative: +0 (Dex)
    Speed: 40 ft.
    AC: 17 (-4 size, +11 natural)
    Attacks: Slam +32 melee, 2 stamps +27 melee or gore +27 melee
    Damage: Slam 2d8 +14, stamp 2d8 +7; gore 4d6 +21
    Face/Reach: 20ft. by 40ft./10ft.
    Special Attacks: Trample 4d6 +21
    Special Qualities: Scent
    Saves: Fort +24, Ref +17, Will +9
    Abilities: Str 38, Dex, 10, Con, 25, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7
    Skills: Listen +6, Spot +6
    Climate/Terrain: Warm forest and plains
    Organization: Solitary or herd (6-30)
    Challenge Rating: 12
    Advancement: 31-40 HD (Gargantuan); 41-50 HD (Colossal. Go on, you know you want to...)


    The above are simply the stats for an elephant advanced from "huge" to "gargantuan." 30 HD is arbitrary (22 is max for an elephant), although I think it reflects the toughness of these creatures.
    Mumakil are described as "a beast of vast bulk...his kin that live still in later days are but memories of his girth and majesty."

    Again, wrt size: "the ruins of what seemed a very war-tower lay upon his heaving back." This is no ordinary howdah. Given these statistics, a Mumak would weigh around 50 tons, and have a max. carrying load of 38400 pounds or around 17 tons. Enough for a wooden war tower, anyway.

    A "Dire Elephant," so to speak.

    Last edited by sepulchrave; Monday, 28th January, 2002 at 07:43 AM.

  • #76
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    Wow. Nasty oliphant! I'd hate to run into one of those...and I can't imagine an army of them! By the way, one of my students this semester has the last name Oliphant. I thought that was interesting....

    As far as copyrights go, I say we don't fixate on that. Steve Long and the other folks at Decipher know about our project. Let's just go ahead and post our material, and if they ask us to take it down, we'll do it. Let's not go out looking for trouble and maybe it won't find us.
    Wolfspider

    Founder of BADD - Bothered About Disposable Dragons

    "Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement." -- Mourn, laying down the law

    "The sins of the previous edition don't excuse the sins of the next." -- Kamikaze Midget, giving words to my thoughts

  • #77
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    Yes, let's just emphasize to everyone, including ourselves, that this is a fan project. As long as we don't try to profit from the project or challenge any entity's copyright, I hope no one takes offense. But, if we run into trouble like that, we can simply take down the site, and circulate the info amongst ourselves.

    Palcadon is plugging away on the pages. I have asked him about linking to specific areas on pages of the conversion docs that have been HTML'ed; that is, for example, on the "Monsters" page I would like to have a link to - again, for example - Gothmog's Balrog that goes directly to that section of his conversion. Can anyone help out with this? It would help to know how to go about doing such a thing.

    By the way, I'm pretty under the weather right now, so I may not be making many appearances here for a while; I will be checking the thread every day or so. Any questions, either e-mail me or post them here, and I'll get to them when I'm able.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph Stilwell

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    Book Mark

    Col H,

    The feature you are looking for is called bookmarking (if I understand you Q). How you do it might be a little different for each editor. Look for it in the program index (it is simple, once you figure it out).

    Sorry to hear you aren't sailing high. Nothing serious I hope.
    Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. ~ Yoda

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    Thanks Eosin

    Much thanks Eosin.

    I will send an e-mail with some questions concerning things that I may need help with if you are still interested.

    Palc
    Middle Earth for D20

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    Fire away.

    Just don't look at the site I broke this weekend!!!


    I was trying to get fancy. DOH.


    I am at work, and about to get real busy ( the 9 PM suicide rush ) but I will be up several hours after I get home. So feel free to email me with the Q's or post them here.

    Raflar - may still be around and he really is a pro.


    MRmadden@mmcable.com
    Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. ~ Yoda

    PENCIL PUSHERS

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