Secret Doors are too secret. Thoughts?

hennebeck · Jun 20, 2008

So what do you all do when your party just isn't finding the secret doors?

So far my group has walked past 4. FOUR.

They've checked in a few rooms that had nothing, and their passive Perception isn't even close. Off by 5.

Do you try to steer them at all?

Do you allow them to linger just a bit longer in a room hoping they might check that area intently so you can give them another roll?

Do you make the DC a 10 just so they make sure to find it?

How secret are your secret doors?

Treebore · Jun 20, 2008

Secret enough to be hard to find. They aren't supposed to be easy to find. Are there no clues that they haven't found something despite checking all the rooms they know of? Meaning were they told something specific is hidden somewhere in the dungeon/manor/whatever? Well, when they go through the whole thing it should be clear they missed something.

If they aren't taking the time to actively look I wouldn't worry about it either.

If you want to give them a clue have them find a blade of long grass sticking out of the wall at floor level. If they still don't actively look for secret rooms, their loss. Your not there to hold their hands.

Dog Moon · Jun 20, 2008

Treebore said:
If they still don't actively look for secret rooms, their loss. Your not there to hold their hands.

Except sometimes, it's the loss of the entire adventure. I've played in some campaigns where the DM is looking at a secret room and sees that the clue we need for the next adventure is in that room and we would just pass by it except the DM says either 'You find it' [even though we certainly did not roll high enough] or 'You spot an odd crack in the wall' without any of us rolling.

Really, it depends on what's behind the secret door. EXTRA treasure, don't worry about. Necessary treasure, give them a little extra later to make sure they don't fall behind. Clues, if necessary make sure they somehow stumble across it [if you have to, add one extra bad guys who exits the secret room and stares dumbly at the PCs in surprise], but otherwise if not necessary, put clues in later or not put any in at all and make them squirm a little while they put their partial clues together].

When planning my own maps, the secret doors either lead to an additional amount of loot they'll be happy to receive, but doesn't matter if they miss it or secret doors to make accessing different areas easier, but again aren't necessary.

It really sucks for a group to go through an entire dungeon or area and receive little to no loot simply because one of them missed their Perception/Search check by a couple of points which led to the treasure horde.

If you don't like giving it to them, do something interesting with the secret door, something fun.

CleverNickName · Jun 20, 2008

Hmm...never had the problem. Perhaps the folks over in the 4E Rules Forum would be able to help you better.

frankthedm · Jun 20, 2008

Low level characters should not be finding secret doors passively.

Samuel Leming · Jun 20, 2008

hennebeck said:
So what do you all do when your party just isn't finding the secret doors?

Go on with the adventure, or just move on to the next adventure if they miss some vital hidden clue.

hennebeck said:
So far my group has walked past 4. FOUR.

Get used to it unless they'd prefer a more structured story-driven/railroaded playstyle.

hennebeck said:
They've checked in a few rooms that had nothing, and their passive Perception isn't even close. Off by 5.

See above.

hennebeck said:
Do you try to steer them at all?

No. That's their job. I provide the information, they decide.

hennebeck said:
Do you allow them to linger just a bit longer in a room hoping they might check that area intently so you can give them another roll?

If they want to linger, then they linger. If they want to move on, they more on.

hennebeck said:
Do you make the DC a 10 just so they make sure to find it?

Only if the secret door would really be easy to find. Like a throw rug over a trapdoor with a pullring.

hennebeck said:
How secret are your secret doors?

Anything from a throw rug/tapestry to seamless mechanisms openable only by magic. Depends on the situation.

Sam

Fenes · Jun 20, 2008

I don't use secret doors without any clue that there is one (like a lair without another emergency exit, or the party heard someone from that room, but now it's emoty, and they cam in through the only door). Mostly because I think there should be a logical reason for a secret door.

Samuel Leming · Jun 20, 2008

Fenes said:
Mostly because I think there should be a logical reason for a secret door.

The guy building the secret door wanting to hide something sounds like a logical reason to me.

Sam

Baumi · Jun 20, 2008

Don't forget that in 4E if you are actively searching the room your are automatically taking 20 on your roll. If that is still not enough and the players are really searching for doors you might give them a bonus if they are more specific for what and how they search.

delericho · Jun 20, 2008

Dog Moon said:
Except sometimes, it's the loss of the entire adventure. I've played in some campaigns where the DM is looking at a secret room and sees that the clue we need for the next adventure is in that room...

That would be flawed adventure design. If you need the PCs to find something (or solve a particular riddle, or to succeed at some task, or whatever), don't put them in a position where they might fail.

Either set the DC for the search low enough that they can spot it passively, or have them walk in just as the BBEG is redrafting his Evil Diary, or whatever.

Alternately, don't have a hidden clue that leads them to the next adventure at all; have a hidden clue that makes the next adventure easier (a map showing a secret entrance, or hidden treasure cache, or whatever). That way, if the PCs don't find it, the game goes on.