Hoards of Minions and 1st level characters

X

xjermx

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #1

Two things:

I have kicked off my 4e game, and have a good party mix of 7 players. The next encounter on my wicked DM chart is going to pit them against a huge number of level 1 minions. 20 of them, to be exact. Plus a level 3 soldier. My concern is this: Despite that this is a balanced in counter, in terms of the XP math, I am afraid that it could turn into a TPK, and here is why.

A level 1 minion is stat'ed at 4 damage on a successful hit, and +6 vs AC. Now, based on my experience so far, +6 vs AC is pretty good. Its high enough to hit more than half of the characters more than half of the time.

This particular encounter calls for shadow bats, so I took the one in the monster manual, and made it into a level 1 minion, but left its flyby attack.

I tested the encounter by myself, and on the first round, the cleric and the wizard were both taking dirt naps.

Any suggestions?

 

log in or register to remove this ad

Mort_Q

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #2

Don't let the minions all come at once. Have them charge in in waves, perhaps increasing the size of the wave each time. Make sure the defenders have a chance to stop most of them.

 

useridunavailable

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #3

Question 1: Does the party have a dragonborn or 2 in the front lines?

Question 2: Does the party have a wizard?

If the answer to both of these questions is "yes," your party will probably steamroll this encounter.

Edit: I just ran a first level party of 5 through the Irontooth encounter in KotS. This encounter consists of: 10 level 1 minions, 6 level 2-3 creatures, and a level 3 elite brute. I did give them each a couple of potions before the encounter, and it probably took them 20+ rounds to do it, but they limped away without a single death.

 

Last edited: Jun 23, 2008

T

TheNovaLord

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #4

i used a lot of minion types in my first adventure i wrote and played and the party handled them pretty well

i did as is mentioned above have them arrive out of the hole in the ground OR forest OR graveyard in waves rather than en masse and didnt use the same initiative for the lot

 

G

gnfnrf

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #5

xjermx said:

Two things:

I have kicked off my 4e game, and have a good party mix of 7 players. The next encounter on my wicked DM chart is going to pit them against a huge number of level 1 minions. 20 of them, to be exact. Plus a level 3 soldier. My concern is this: Despite that this is a balanced in counter, in terms of the XP math, I am afraid that it could turn into a TPK, and here is why.

A level 1 minion is stat'ed at 4 damage on a successful hit, and +6 vs AC. Now, based on my experience so far, +6 vs AC is pretty good. Its high enough to hit more than half of the characters more than half of the time.

This particular encounter calls for shadow bats, so I took the one in the monster manual, and made it into a level 1 minion, but left its flyby attack.

I tested the encounter by myself, and on the first round, the cleric and the wizard were both taking dirt naps.

Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Cut flyby attack?

The problem with large groups of minions (from their perspective) is that not all of them can effectively come to bear on a single target. Flyby attack eliminates that concern, making them much more deadly. High movement and flight also add to this.

Essentially, I think I'm saying that, while you may be using the attack and damage for a level 1 minion, your minions have the special attributes of a higher level creature, and are thus not appropriate at level 1.

--
gnfnrf

 

J

James McMurray

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #6

Yeah, its balance vs. the party really depends on the party's makeup. A Wizard with Flaming Sphere will be able to kill 1-3 minions per turn with his move action, and another chunk of them with his standard. Dragonborn and a Cleric with Divine Glow (and Turn Undead if the minions are susceptible) will also add to the carnage.

Terrain will also play a major factor. If it's a wide open field or has terrain that doesn't hamper the monsters, the party will be surrounded and in serious trouble very quickly. If it's a single tight corridor or doorway defense, you'll get a conga line of death roll as only 2 enemies at a time get a chance to attack.

 

useridunavailable

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #7

gnfnrf said:

The problem with large groups of minions (from their perspective) is that not all of them can effectively come to bear on a single target.

Click to expand...

This is actually totally untrue. Level 1 Kobold minions have javelins. 50 of them could attack one PC at the same time.

 

L

LokiDR

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #8

You are in a bad place for player count. At 7 people, the number of minions you can use means you have a lot of firepower that can go after a few characters. The game is designed around 5v5. The organized play campaigns like Living Greyhawk and Living Arcanis learned this the hard way; large groups are hard to deal with.

For advice, I would suggest you play the bats dumb. Make a cinematic scene out of all the bats flying in a horde out of some narrow space, and give the defender an OA on each that doesn't flyby attack him. Keep the bats' attacks spread out. Consider skipping bat attacks for a round as they mass near the ceiling and look really menacing. In short, don't try to kill the PCs.

 

Last edited: Jul 10, 2008

W

WyzardWhately

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #9

Remember, their fly-by attack only prevents OAs from the person they're targeting. If your PCs pack close together, they're still going to be shredding bats left and right.

 

chaotix42

First Post

• Jun 23, 2008

• #10

I pitted my 6 1st lvl PCs against 24 Decrepit Skeletons and they did pretty well. They were searching a tomb, and the skeletons activated inside alcoves set into the walls. 12 were very close to the PCs, 6 on either side of them, and the other 12 were up ahead further in the room. The 1st group engaged the party in melee while the 2nd group advanced and fired volleys of arrows from their shortbows - once they were engaged they drew their swords and shields and continued the fight. Nobody got KOed, but a bad streak of rolls from the fighter and paladin made everyone a little nervous as the 1st wave was mostly intact, and the 2nd wave was advancing within dogpile range. At that point the cleric moved up and let loose with Turn Undead, wiping out something like 7 or 8 skeletons, mostly from the 2nd wave. At that point all the PCs had to do was clean up and it was XP time!

I even tried ganging up on a few PCs, but the best I could do was 4 hits in melee against the Ranger for 16 damage. I wouldn't be afraid of doing the same in your own game. Swarm the defenders if you're afraid that the numbers would be too overwhelming on the other PCs.