Forked Thread: LGS providing Gaming Space

GSHamster · Jul 1, 2008

Forked from: Death of the LGS

Looking over the Death of the LGS thread, a lot of people are advocating that an LGS should provide space for people to game. I'm not sure that I see the business rational in doing this.

First, RPGs are a small group game of 4-6 people. People can easily play at their own homes without much hassle. It's not like CCG tournaments where you can easily get a couple of dozen players, which can't be hosted at a private home.

Second, it's a pretty large amount of space that is essentially empty much of the time. Retail square footage is not cheap, which is one of the big reasons that the online stores are winning. Wouldn't filling that empty space with actual product be more profitable?

Third, kind of honestly, in my experience the type of people who hang out in game stores playing RPGs are not exactly the best role-models for attracting new players to the hobby. Maybe it's insensitive to say this, but all the "normal" roleplayers I knew would never play at a store, but would play at a friend's house. The people who played in stores were the type of people you wouldn't invite to your house.

To me, the best reason for going to a LGS is to browse, to see what's new and interesting. I think that rather than wasting retail space on gamers, a LGS should fill it with a variety of product. Showcase new stuff every so often, so people have a reason to go in and see what's new.

Also, make an effort to bring in products that attract women as well as men. Anime is a pretty decent example, in my experience. Far too often, an LGS is a very female-unfriendly place.

I just think an LGS would be better off to concentrate less on the Gaming aspect, and more on the Store aspect.

shadewest · Jul 1, 2008

Often, you are right about the types you find playing in a FLGS play area. However, I must admit that I found my own home group because of the organized play events hosted there. Once you have a good group of players, you can move to someone's home. Playing at the FLGS let me meet folks and play with them a few times, instead of inviting strangers to my home to play.

Actually I tried that too. Both times the group fell apart fairly quickly.

I agree though, that play space shouldn't necessarily be an expectation. I know tht if my own FLGS didn't have the space, I'd still shop there. The convenient location is more important than the space.

Rechan · Jul 1, 2008

It looks like I'm going to have to use the play space at my LGS. I don't want to, but I am trying to put a group together, and everyone who seems interested lives at least 40 minutes away - in different directions.

Due to the price of gas and the distance people have to travel, the LGS is the most convenient location to do it at.

Regardless, I dislike doing it in this manner. It's not as intimate. I'd much rather be in a closed space, without passerbies, and definitely getting deep into the roleplay.

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 1, 2008

1) The gaming space isn't only for use for RPGs, but for any game in the store- it can be used for CCGs, CMGs, boardgames, wargames, etc.

2) It need not lie dormant. If nobody's renting the space (some advocate a pay to play model), run a game demo. Have your staff actively sell a game by playing it, preferably with customers.

As I mentioned in the other thread, you can actually measure the increase in sales after successful demonstrations of products. As they often said in my MBA program, a factory store is like a license to print money.

A good game seen in play will generate buzz- I mean that both metaphorically and literally- that will help move units.

tomBitonti · Jul 1, 2008

Can anyone give a rundown on what a meeting space costs to keep open? Let's say a space anywhere from a single table in a row able to sit 4 to a large table in a room by itself, room dimensions 12x20 (or whatever makes sense).

This has been an issue for me, where the lack of public gaming areas is a huge bother.

Victim · Jul 1, 2008

Game space seems much more useful playing and demoing minis, cards, clix, board games.

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 1, 2008

Can anyone give a rundown on what a meeting space costs to keep open?

That's one of those "how long is a piece of string?" questions.

As a rule of thumb, the bare minimum would be the cost of the rental space. IOW, if your store's lease is $20/sq foot per month (all inclusive), then your minimum would be the same.

So, lets say you're devoting a space that is 15'x15' to a gaming space in a store with a $20/sq ft/month lease.

That's 225sq feet at $4500/month, or about $150/day on average.

That doesn't have to be purely in renting the space. That can be offset in sales of merchandise from game demos or tournaments, cross-subsidizing that $4500 by increasing all of your store's prices a couple of pennies (those that you can, anyway).

If your store actually advertises, then you could include all, some or none of that $4500 as part of your advertising budget.

WhatGravitas · Jul 1, 2008

GSHamster said:
I just think an LGS would be better off to concentrate less on the Gaming aspect, and more on the Store aspect.

Then you have to compete with Amazon and Barnes & Nobles. And that's darned tough competition.

If you, however, have gaming space, you can do something the former two cannot do - provide a service. And that gaming space can be used for CCG tournaments and wargaming as well.

Furthermore, this allows you to become competitive with Amazon - give out vouchers or similar stuff for "one free gaming session" or similar stuff with your RPG books, and suddenly, you're getting closer to the low prices of Amazon by utilizing your space.

And for "not the best rolemodel" - there's a kind of groups that profit from public space a lot: Yet forming groups and students, as they often don't have the meeting space.

In fact, if your gaming room is superior to usual living rooms, you could start to attract other people. Imagine, as DM, you have access to the FLGS collection of minis on a lease base, their battlemats, and so on.

So I say a LGS would be better off to concentrate less on the store aspect, and more on the service aspect.

Cheers, LT.

Corjay · Jul 1, 2008

More space for product is not going to resolve the product cost issue. The store is still not going to be able to buy enough bulk to reduce their costs. Service is still going to need to be the focus, and without space, you can't provide service, because just answering questions is not a money-making service in itself.

BlueBlackRed · Jul 1, 2008

If you have multiple LGS's, it's a matter of competition and the ability to demo a game for a customer who wants to buy a game but isn't willing to shell out the cash sight-unseen.

The only downside to having the space is if people don't buy from you, but freely exploit your space while spending almost no money.

My local FLGS had that problem for a while, but when he banned Yu-gi-oh things improved drastically. Parents stopped dropping their kids off for free babysitting. Less screaming kids = more paying customers who want to relax playing a game on Saturday.

So if you have the game space, it helps you competitively, but only if you're willing to put the work in to maximize the the effectiveness of the space.