Forked Thread: "The Death of the Imagination" re: World of Warcraft

Mercurius

Legend
Forked from: D&D Intiative...Master Tools 2008?


mhensley said:
Yeah, everyone I work with plays WoW instead. :)
Mercurius said:
Sad. And so the death of imagination commences.
Fifth Element said:
Wow, that was a pointless post. I personally have zero interest in games like WoW, and yet I don't have an urge to insult those who do. I must be interwebbing wrong, as they say.

Hi Fifth Element. Let me clarify something and then (briefly) explicate my view on this. First of all, I did not insult anyone except for the World of Warcraft itself, which is not a person therefore not insulted (or so I hope!). If I had implied that players of WoW were deliberately "killing imagination" it would have been an insult (of sorts). What I was saying, or at least meant to imply, is that World of Warcraft--and games like it--actually kill, or at least atrophy, imagination.

Now obviously there is an implication that could be read into this, that players of WoW have less imagination than non-players. This is something I wouldn't even try to prove, even if I wanted to (which I don't). But I don't think it is a stretch to conjecture that the imaginative faculties of someone before hours and hours of play are greater than after, if only subtly. Long-term play is more of a concern, and can be highly detrimental to one's imagination.

And I firmly believe this. Why? One major reason is that simply by virtue of such games feeding you imagery, you don't have to create any of your own, and therefore (gradually) lose that capacity. "Use it or lose it", as the saying goes. And I was specifically relating them to mhensley's comment that none of his co-workers play tabletop RPGs, only WoW. To me it is "sad" that they play the imagination-poor WoW instead of the imagination-rich Dungeons & Dragons.

As I see it, there is a qualitative difference between tabletop RPGs (such as D&D) and computer RPGs (such as WoW) and it largely has to do with imagination, although socialization is another major factor. One actually encourages and develops imagination while the other discourages and, in my view, actually hinders it. Now imagination is something that I feel is of such importance to the quality of human existence that I think it is a big deal that so many people are in effect addicted to something that actually atrophies it. Actually, our culture is full of such methods of "imagination atrophy", that we're all prone to it to varying degrees (WoW isn't even the main culprit, that would be television).

Now I am not saying that any amount of World of Warcraft (or TV) will harm one's imagination. I'm a believer of "(almost) anything in moderation." But such activities tend to be rather difficult to moderate, if not prone to outright addiction. And considering the heavy usage of a significant portion of World of Warcraft players, and the largely unquestioned prevalence of TV watching, I'd call this a huge cultural problem.
 

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Mercurius

Legend
Well, you're completely wrong, and this forked thread is utterly pointless.

Good jorb!

Huh? This thread opens a conversation on the imagination and its relation to computer vs. tabletop RPGs, which is hardly pointless.

Btw, saying "you're completely wrong" is a completely empty assertion. If you think I'm completely wrong and feel inclined to say so, at least tell me why (enlighten me, if you will, o sensei ;)).

Or maybe I'm missing your humor?
 

Well, you're completely wrong, and this forked thread is utterly pointless.

Good jorb!

I don't think so, actually.

I mean, I've got all the WoW experience you can possibly require, the multiple 70s, the high-end raiding, the high-end PvP (mostly pre-arenas admittedly), etc. etc., and I'd say that he is not entirely incorrect.

WoW in particular, I would suggest, due to certain design choices, limits the imagination rather than expanding it. It's an amazing game, with amazing art design, but I do not think it's design is inspiring, or even immersive in the normal sense, but rather it's enveloping.
 

Mallus

Legend
And considering the heavy usage of a significant portion of World of Warcraft players, and the largely unquestioned prevalence of TV watching, I'd call this a huge cultural problem.
And playing D&D is part of the solution?

Or should we skip the D&D entirely and spend all our leisure time reading Proust and listening to opera? Now that's edification!
 

Cadfan

First Post
First of all, I did not insult anyone except for the World of Warcraft itself
Yes, you did insult people. You just did it with ENWorld Moderation Approved Insult Technique.

Wrong on ENWorld- You are a moron.
Right on ENWorld- Such and such appeals only to morons.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I don't think so, actually.

I mean, I've got all the WoW experience you can possibly require, the multiple 70s, the high-end raiding, the high-end PvP (mostly pre-arenas admittedly), etc. etc., and I'd say that he is not entirely incorrect.

WoW in particular, I would suggest, due to certain design choices, limits the imagination rather than expanding it. It's an amazing game, with amazing art design, but I do not think it's design is inspiring, or even immersive in the normal sense, but rather it's enveloping.

It is this "enveloping" quality that is related to what I'm talking about, that would be even more extreme in the case of, say, virtual reality--which would represent a complete "colonization" of the imagination.

And this is not to downplay the technical brilliance of the game: frankly, it is amazing what they've created. Nuclear weaponry is pretty amazing too.
 

Mercurius

Legend
And playing D&D is part of the solution?

Or should we skip the D&D entirely and spend all our leisure time reading Proust and listening to opera? Now that's edification!

Yes, I would say that playing D&D and other tabletop RPGs CAN be part of the solution in that they actively exercise imagination.
 

And playing D&D is part of the solution?

Or should we skip the D&D entirely and spend all our leisure time reading Proust and listening to opera? Now that's edification!

Oh man, less than a page in and it's straw-man city already. 'Cause, you know, the only reason to not watch TV and play MMORPGs is to listen to classical music and read dead authors, right? :hmm:

Playing D&D is part of the solution, yes, I think so. I know that when I cut down on WoW and started working on D&D stuff, my imagination, which had indeed been rather supressed, suddenly started working overtime again, and it was absolutely invigorating. I am not kidding you. I wish I was. I've found it impossible to go back to playing WoW at my former rate as a result, which is probably a good thing, as I get more done, think more, imagine more, and generally feel a darn sight better off.

Yes, you did insult people. You just did it with ENWorld Moderation Approved Insult Technique.

Wrong on ENWorld- You are a moron.
Right on ENWorld- Such and such appeals only to morons.

Yeah, only he didn't say that. I mean, if he did, why am I not insulted as someone who has played WoW absolutely to death?

Edit: I think the difficulty here is, unless people have played WoW pretty heavily, they're unlikely to "see" this. Someone playing WoW a few hours a week isn't really going to feel his imagination is being taken over or what-have-you, and he'd be right not to feel that. It's unlikely that many people who even post here have really experienced the effect for themselves. I know that, when 3E came out, if someone had told me an MMORPG like EQ could do this, I'd have said they were full of it. However, experience dictates otherwise.
 
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Mercurius

Legend
Yes, you did insult people. You just did it with ENWorld Moderation Approved Insult Technique.

Wrong on ENWorld- You are a moron.
Right on ENWorld- Such and such appeals only to morons.

As Ruin Explorer already said, I didn't say that. I did not call WoW players "morons." I obviously believe that it is harmful, at least in more than moderate amounts. But lots of highly intelligent people do harmful things to themselves, consciously or not. My guess is that most WoW don't consciously know that what they are doing is having the effect that (I think) it is, although on some some sub-conscious level some might. But even if they did, heck, I smoked cigarettes for over a decade and I wouldn't consider myself a moron.

Well, not all the time at least.
 

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