D&D 4th Edition The most damaging 4th edition attack by Class?


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  1. #1
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    The most damaging 4th edition attack by Class?

    Now this is a question rather than an answer I'm afraid, now I'm not interested in synergies with extra special magic items or set ups from other party members, I'm interested in at level 30, whats the most damaging attack for each class both in terms of maximum damage and actual average damage. Max damage will be Blade cascade as it can theoretically go on forever with an infinite hit cycle of hits.

    So the rules:
    Only magic items allowed are +6 weapons/implements no special spooge
    Level 30 character with any paragon path and any epic destiny any race EDIT: In the PHB.
    Use standard 4th ed point buy for stat generation

    Single target
    Give us the max damage of the attack on a single target (non crit)
    Give us the average damage of the attack per round including the to hit bonus and crit chance on a single target

    Area/Burst/consecutive attacks on different targets (under debate)
    Give us the maximum damage of the area attack assuming 3 targets per 9 squares of the attack, rounding to nearest number
    Give us the average area damage on its first round assuming 3 targets per 9 squares.
    I give up on how to average the amount of consecutive targets an attack can reach depending on squares moved

    Burst or Blast number = targets (number of total squares from a blast)
    1 = 3 (9)
    2 = 8 (25)
    3 = 16 (49)
    4 = 27 (81)
    5 = 40 (121)

    If anyone can think of better rules please by all means suggest but I think starting on the single damage for each class is the best place to start.
    Last edited by Ginnel; Friday, 11th July, 2008 at 12:28 PM.
    Ginnel

    "Someone on the internet is wrong!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabe
    Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginnel View Post
    If you want to create something different do it.

    All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.

    Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.



 

  • #2
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    Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)



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    The highest DPS build I have seen so far is a minotaur fighter/kensai demigod wielding a maul. I will post the link when gleemax is done with their maintenance.

    Depending on whether you subscribe to cust-serv's ruling that gargantuan creatures like Orcus are treated as having left 16 squares for each square they move, classes like blood mage get ugly fast.

  • #3
    for Bursts/Blasts i wouldn't increase the hit targets that fast, I would use the following numbers (its just the numbers of squares on a side). Why? the larger the area, the harder it is to aim to get the most of it without hurting friends, as well as there are few fights with that many enemies, averaging out over time to about the numbers written below (IMO, not that experienced yet with 4th ). AE which hurt only enemies are easier to target, but still need those targets

    Burst/Blast = targets - targetsenemyonly - (area)
    1/3 = 3 - 4 - (9)
    2/5 = 5 - 7 - (25)
    3/7 = 7 - 10 - (49)
    4/9 = 9 - 13 - (81)
    5/11 = 11 - 16 - (121)
    Normal people creep me out

  • #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    The highest DPS build I have seen so far is a minotaur fighter/kensai demigod wielding a maul. I will post the link when gleemax is done with their maintenance.

    Depending on whether you subscribe to cust-serv's ruling that gargantuan creatures like Orcus are treated as having left 16 squares for each square they move, classes like blood mage get ugly fast.
    Dam thats another change I need to make as the Monster Manual races aren't proper PC races and just suggestions for NPC's and a fudge if you want to use them as a PC
    Ginnel

    "Someone on the internet is wrong!"
    Shabe on sharing loot
    Quote Originally Posted by Shabe
    Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginnel View Post
    If you want to create something different do it.

    All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.

    Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.



  • #5
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    Well, if anything, the MM races are weaker than PHB races due to their noticeable lack of support. Ah well, we can only wait for a future supplement to give them the upgrades they do require.

    And here is the build.
    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1042574
    Last edited by Runestar; Friday, 11th July, 2008 at 02:26 PM.

  • #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Depending on whether you subscribe to cust-serv's ruling that gargantuan creatures like Orcus are treated as having left 16 squares for each square they move, classes like blood mage get ugly fast.
    Lol wut?

    I like going places with the rules (gonna play an invisidin soon), and making the best of what I got (hence why spiked chains were banned under one DM), but I'll not have my infernal warlock/blood mage touch this nugget of pure comedy gold.

    Got a link or something?


    cheers

  • #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ander00 View Post
    Lol wut?

    I like going places with the rules (gonna play an invisidin soon), and making the best of what I got (hence why spiked chains were banned under one DM), but I'll not have my infernal warlock/blood mage touch this nugget of pure comedy gold.

    Got a link or something?


    cheers
    A large creature inhabits a 2x2 area on the grid. I.E. it inhabits 4 squares. When it moves laterally or longitudinally it leaves two squares. When it moves diagonally it leaves 3 squares.

    A huge creature inhabits a 3x3 area on the grid, so it leaves 3 when moving laterally or longitudinally and 5 when moving diagonally.

    A gargantuan creature inhabits a 4x4 area on the grid, and so it leaves 4 squares when moving laterally or longitudinally and 7 when moving diagonally.

    Blood Pulse does 1d6 damage for each square that an enemy leaves. Now, lets assume a +4 implement and that is 1d6+4 for each square an enemy leaves. Lets assume that you can thunderwave for 8 squares of movement(and many other movement powers are even stronger, like that warlock one which is something like 5+int, if the attack wasn't cha based it would be a great multi-class combo for wizards). So you hit a gargantuan creature and then move it 8 squares diagonally.

    It takes average 7.5 damage per square it leaves and leaves 56 squares for 420 damage(plus the thunderwave damage). BONK! Oh, and blood pulse is still running so anyone else with push, pull, and slide powers can take advantage of it and continue to ream the large monster horribly.

    Now, if the power means you get xd6 damage where x is the number of squares the target moves its a lot more sensible, now you only do 56d6 + 4 damage(200 avg) before the thunderwave. Which is still a boat load of hit points. But not so much that its going to ruin the game since it doesn't scale to smaller enemies.

    Its even worse since the effect applies on a hit and is part of the hit language, which means that if you crit on the blood wave, all the movement does max damage. A crit on a blood wave and pushing a gargantuan creature 8 squares means it takes 1344 damage if you have a +4 implement[6+4+4d6 per square at 56 squares=560+226d6])

    The total damage you can do with a blood wave at level 30 with a +6 weapon is thousands of damage, 532 average per 8 square move, 1848 damage on a crit per 8 square move.

    Assume that everyone in your party of 5 stacks on the push/pull/slide powers and you can reliably one round Orcus if you hit with the blood wave, especially if you have a fighter and Warlord in the party, since they get powers that auto hit enemies and enforce slide/pulls.

    Assume the warlord slides 8 and then the fighter pulls Orcus right back, then a wizard or warlock push Orcus away again. That is 24 squares of movement at 7 squares left each, for (168d6+1008) 1565 average damage. If the blood wave was a crit you are looking at (1008+1008+1008d6) for 5544 average damage.

    I.E. if you land a blood wave against large creatures in a party with lots of push/pull powers you might as well just not bother rolling damage. That is, unless you fix the damage to be xd6 where x is the number of squares left.

  • #8
    Yeah, it's a crazy ruling. I'm sure we'll see plenty more of those, but this one actually made me laugh.


    cheers

  • #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Goumindong View Post
    A large creature inhabits a 2x2 area on the grid. I.E. it inhabits 4 squares. When it moves laterally or longitudinally it leaves two squares. When it moves diagonally it leaves 3 squares.

    A huge creature inhabits a 3x3 area on the grid, so it leaves 3 when moving laterally or longitudinally and 5 when moving diagonally.

    A gargantuan creature inhabits a 4x4 area on the grid, and so it leaves 4 squares when moving laterally or longitudinally and 7 when moving diagonally.

    Blood Pulse does 1d6 damage for each square that an enemy leaves. Now, lets assume a +4 implement and that is 1d6+4 for each square an enemy leaves. Lets assume that you can thunderwave for 8 squares of movement(and many other movement powers are even stronger, like that warlock one which is something like 5+int, if the attack wasn't cha based it would be a great multi-class combo for wizards). So you hit a gargantuan creature and then move it 8 squares diagonally.

    It takes average 7.5 damage per square it leaves and leaves 56 squares for 420 damage(plus the thunderwave damage). BONK! Oh, and blood pulse is still running so anyone else with push, pull, and slide powers can take advantage of it and continue to ream the large monster horribly.

    Now, if the power means you get xd6 damage where x is the number of squares the target moves its a lot more sensible, now you only do 56d6 + 4 damage(200 avg) before the thunderwave. Which is still a boat load of hit points. But not so much that its going to ruin the game since it doesn't scale to smaller enemies.

    Its even worse since the effect applies on a hit and is part of the hit language, which means that if you crit on the blood wave, all the movement does max damage. A crit on a blood wave and pushing a gargantuan creature 8 squares means it takes 1344 damage if you have a +4 implement[6+4+4d6 per square at 56 squares=560+226d6])

    The total damage you can do with a blood wave at level 30 with a +6 weapon is thousands of damage, 532 average per 8 square move, 1848 damage on a crit per 8 square move.

    Assume that everyone in your party of 5 stacks on the push/pull/slide powers and you can reliably one round Orcus if you hit with the blood wave, especially if you have a fighter and Warlord in the party, since they get powers that auto hit enemies and enforce slide/pulls.

    Assume the warlord slides 8 and then the fighter pulls Orcus right back, then a wizard or warlock push Orcus away again. That is 24 squares of movement at 7 squares left each, for (168d6+1008) 1565 average damage. If the blood wave was a crit you are looking at (1008+1008+1008d6) for 5544 average damage.

    I.E. if you land a blood wave against large creatures in a party with lots of push/pull powers you might as well just not bother rolling damage. That is, unless you fix the damage to be xd6 where x is the number of squares left.

    That is not going to make it into our game. Fughettaboutit. Serious abuse of intent there.

  • #10
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    Acolyte (Lvl 2)



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    Yea, Blood Pulse is just fine with pretty much any ruling(be that xd6
    +bonuses other than int where x is the number of squares left, 1d6+bonuses other than int per square of movement, or xd6+bonuses other than int where x is the number of squares of movement)

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