Forked Thread: Help! A player wants to play

ValhallaGH · Jul 15, 2008

Forked from: Help! A player wants to play "Captain America"
Moved to not clutter the OPs perfectly reasonable question with side conversation.

KarinsDad said:
First off, the title of the thread specified that the player wanted to play Captain America and since that is not available in the game, it requires a rules and/or flavor adjustment of some sort.

We respond to posts, not to thread titles. That's what being a courteous and useful poster is about.

Second, the OP did not say it was a friend. He said it was a new group.

Flavor text is your friend, as both player and game master. That's what I said, and that's what you failed to read (or chose to ignore). If you can't see that then I don't want to have any more gaming discussions with you.

Third, I did not say to kick the guy out. I said the DM shouldn't have to adjust rules to adapt to the player. In fact, the DM shouldn't have to adjust flavor for his campaign either.

So, the guys that publish your gaming books are supposed to publish exactly what you want to use for your campaign? And exactly what I want to use for my campaign? And everyone else's campaign?
Am I the only one that strikes as utterly ridiculous?

And finally, if he is a friend, friendship is a too way street. Putting extra work on the shoulders of the DM, just to play an off the wall concept, is fine for a friend to try to do. Just like it is fine for the DM friend to "just say no". Player entitlement should be limited to what the DM is willing to allow, not what the player is willing to try to get away with.

Yes, friendship is a "two way street." And sometimes you have to clear the land before that street can be planned, graded, and paved. I have found that the results are usually worth the efforts.

As for player entitlement.... Players are entitled to exactly one thing in a game with a single Master : the ability to choose what their characters do when not mind controlled. That's it. Everything else, even rules consistency, is at the whim of the guy running the game.
But the guy running the game should at least try to accommodate the players' requests if he can see a way to do it that doesn't take more than 30 minutes.

Asking ENWorld to solve the problem takes less than 30 minutes. Answers may take longer to appear and may stipulate hours of work, but there's nothing wrong with looking for suggestions.

Jasperak · Jul 15, 2008

This thread should be moved to General Discussion.

DMs and Players should work together to build a common world to play in. I spit at any DM that wants me to act out his little fantasies; those kind of DMs need to go write a book or something. Players need to play along with the type and style of the campaign. Too simple.

Tervin · Jul 15, 2008

Jasperak said:
DMs and Players should work together to build a common world to play in. I spit at any DM that wants me to act out his little fantasies; those kind of DMs need to go write a book or something. Players need to play along with the type and style of the campaign. Too simple.

I agree with most of this, except the spitting. To me a campaign would often start with the DM having a concept in mind and offering it to a group. The group agrees to the concept, perhaps with a few suggestions of their own. Over time the group will probably have new ideas that don't exactly fit with the DM's plans, which will lead to compromises from both sides so that everyone can be kept happy.

Why I reacted against the concept in the original thread was because it is a concept that sets a tone in the game that the other players might not like. If this concept fits the tone that the group wants, it is all good - just not something that would have happened in any campaign I have ever been part of.

Another thing I reacted to in the original thread (that I want to keep from that thread in order to keep the OP happy) is that it seemed like the player wanted the DM to do the player's job. When I want to play a concept that is not in the rulebooks I think the least I can do is to try and make up a suggestion for how it would work, and then let the DM fine tune it afterwards. I like the idea of player empowerment. I don't like the idea of the DM as the players' servant/jester, who runs around doing all the work while they just sit and expect to be entertained.

Jasperak · Jul 16, 2008

Tervin said:
I agree with most of this, except the spitting. To me a campaign would often start with the DM having a concept in mind and offering it to a group. The group agrees to the concept, perhaps with a few suggestions of their own. Over time the group will probably have new ideas that don't exactly fit with the DM's plans, which will lead to compromises from both sides so that everyone can be kept happy.

Why I reacted against the concept in the original thread was because it is a concept that sets a tone in the game that the other players might not like. If this concept fits the tone that the group wants, it is all good - just not something that would have happened in any campaign I have ever been part of.

Another thing I reacted to in the original thread (that I want to keep from that thread in order to keep the OP happy) is that it seemed like the player wanted the DM to do the player's job. When I want to play a concept that is not in the rulebooks I think the least I can do is to try and make up a suggestion for how it would work, and then let the DM fine tune it afterwards. I like the idea of player empowerment. I don't like the idea of the DM as the players' servant/jester, who runs around doing all the work while they just sit and expect to be entertained.

I don't normally spit at DMs unless they are wannabe Greenwoods or Weis/Hickamans.

My understanding is that the player wanted to have a character that attacked with his fists and used a shield that eventually would have a ranged attack. I see nothing here that would offend any players in any of my previous groups.

As for the DM doing the work, this is a brand new system that the player MAY not have any experience with. He MAY be a prick trying to derail the start of a new group. It is the DM's job to figure which it is in this case and procede from there. I think the community here gave alot of valid ways to play the player's concept. The OP just has to figure out if the player is a jerk or not. I do have to remember that the OP came up with "Captain America" not the player. The player described what he wanted; the OP categorized it as "CA"

Forked Thread: Help! A player wants to play

ValhallaGH

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Jasperak

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Tervin

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