Paragon Revision Discussion Thread

Hiya mate!

dante58701 said:

This is very true until you start using adamantine/orichalcum shuriken possessed by devils that are bound to serve you until the day you die.

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What damage do they do? I am interested to learn the significance of the devil-possessed weaponry. Consider me intrigued.

Also what damage do the other players do with their weapons respectively?

Possession allows an evil outsider to enhance a weapon as though it WERE a magical weapon, although, in truth is really ISNT a magical weapon as one would typically know them. In fact, they don't even detect as magical.

Of course binding a fiend into your service, let alone into a weapon is tricky business.

A fiend can enhance a weapon or object, making into a magic item with a value of 2000 gp per Hit Dice of the fiend in question. The fiend also has complete control over what magical properties is will bestow upon the item.

The Ninja 30/Sorcerer 30 Lesser Deity shuriken monkey has 666 devils ranging from 18 Hit Dice (since he prefers pitfiends for this purpose) - 54 Hit Dice. If a contract with a devil expires, he gets a new contract with the same devil (since devils like consistency) or he finds a new devil and bargains with them instead.

As for damage. It varies between the shuriken, but it adds up when your shuriken can also unleash spells and spell-like abilities on your enemies, ect.

Essentially, he's a deity that carries his entourage of fiends with him everywhere he goes.

Pit Fiend possessed shuriken make for a very nasty surprise.


As for the other characters...

Some of them forge deities with Double (Object) Portfolios, then fight with them. It's exceedingly expensive, but after a few dozen gaming sessions it begins to pay off.

One has found a way to bind dragon ghosts into a sword and uses to fight the living. The dragon ghosts devastate the area with their spells and spell-like abilities, while the sword channels their individual breath weapons as individual ray attacks.

By far my favorite though is the one who uses a halfling demi-lich demi-deity as a mace.

Hey dante dude!

dante58701 said:

Possession allows an evil outsider to enhance a weapon as though it WERE a magical weapon, although, in truth is really ISNT a magical weapon as one would typically know them. In fact, they don't even detect as magical.

Of course binding a fiend into your service, let alone into a weapon is tricky business.

A fiend can enhance a weapon or object, making into a magic item with a value of 2000 gp per Hit Dice of the fiend in question. The fiend also has complete control over what magical properties is will bestow upon the item.

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Heres the thing, you might want to review that pricing system to something a tad more reasonable. You are basically giving these things away for free considering the wealth epic characters typically have.

I don't think 2 million gp to have a Time Lord in your weapon is logical.

Perhaps every Hit Dice equals a Weapon Special Ability Market Modifier.

ie. A 20 HD Balor is a +20 rated special ability.

That seems a bit more like it.

The Ninja 30/Sorcerer 30 Lesser Deity shuriken monkey has 666 devils ranging from 18 Hit Dice (since he prefers pitfiends for this purpose) - 54 Hit Dice. If a contract with a devil expires, he gets a new contract with the same devil (since devils like consistency) or he finds a new devil and bargains with them instead.

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Hmmm.

As for damage. It varies between the shuriken, but it adds up when your shuriken can also unleash spells and spell-like abilities on your enemies, ect.

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Indeed.

Essentially, he's a deity that carries his entourage of fiends with him everywhere he goes.

Pit Fiend possessed shuriken make for a very nasty surprise.

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It does bring up the question what sort of monsters does the party face off against?

As for the other characters...

Some of them forge deities with Double (Object) Portfolios, then fight with them. It's exceedingly expensive, but after a few dozen gaming sessions it begins to pay off.

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Your idea of exceedingly expensive and mine may not corelate.

One has found a way to bind dragon ghosts into a sword and uses to fight the living. The dragon ghosts devastate the area with their spells and spell-like abilities, while the sword channels their individual breath weapons as individual ray attacks.

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Sounds like a fun game, if perhaps not as balanced as it could be.

Though fun should always trump balance anyway.

By far my favorite though is the one who uses a halfling demi-lich demi-deity as a mace.

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Cool.

error - what is it with enworld errors lately?

Upper_Krust said:

Hey dante dude!

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Hey there Krusty! =^.^=

Upper_Krust said:

Heres the thing, you might want to review that pricing system to something a tad more reasonable. You are basically giving these things away for free considering the wealth epic characters typically have.

I don't think 2 million gp to have a Time Lord in your weapon is logical.

Perhaps every Hit Dice equals a Weapon Special Ability Market Modifier.

ie. A 20 HD Balor is a +20 rated special ability.

That seems a bit more like it.

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You misunderstood, that isn't the price of the weapon. That's the value of magical abilities that a particular fiend can replicate. You should get either the Book of Vile Darkness or Fiendish Codex I:Hordes of the Abyss, then look up possession.


There is no actual gp cost for the character. The only way they can get these fiends is through defeating the fiend in question in combat and then forcing them into contractual servitude. Essentially a join me or die scenario.

Upper_Krust said:

It does bring up the question what sort of monsters does the party face off against?

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Fiends are very frequent, as are dragons. They do tend to cavort in the lower planes a lot, which can be deadly.

Upper_Krust said:

Your idea of exceedingly expensive and mine may not corelate.

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In the case of forging deities with Double [Object] Portfolios, the expense is in quintessence since they need it to forge these kinds of deities in the first place. Since quintessence doesn't normally grow on trees, it's rather hard to come by and can result in character death.

Upper_Krust said:

Sounds like a fun game, if perhaps not as balanced as it could be.

Though fun should always trump balance anyway.

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Indeed =^.^=

Here were my calculations for the paragon template I made as an exercise in Challenge Rating and Level Adjustment calculation.

How far off am I? What should it's Challenge Rating and Level Adjustment actually be?

Can anyone help me with this. I'm new to figuring out this kind of thing.


Spell-Like Ability - limited wish +.035
+5 Feats +1
Fast Healing +3.75
Damage Reduction 75/cursed and epic +5.625
Cold Resistance +10
Fire Resistance +10

Total = 30.41 (v5 totals - not divided by 6)

Divine Toughness +1
Divine Celerity +1
Divine Armor Class bonus +1
Fortuity (x30) +30
Maven +1
Inner Eye +6
+37 to each ability score +18.5

Total = 9.75 (divided by 6 according to ascension)

CR:+26.98333...ect.

LA:+40.475

Hiha dante mate!

dante58701 said:

Here were my calculations for the paragon template I made as an exercise in Challenge Rating and Level Adjustment calculation.

How far off am I? What should it's Challenge Rating and Level Adjustment actually be?

Can anyone help me with this. I'm new to figuring out this kind of thing.

CR:+26.98333...ect.

LA:+40.475

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Well I have to say that your final calculations now look a heck of a lot closer than your initial 'eyeballing' of it.

Upper_Krust said:

Hiha dante mate!

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Hiya there Krusty! =^.^=

Upper_Krust said:

Well I have to say that your final calculations now look a heck of a lot closer than your initial 'eyeballing' of it.

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Aye, that they be, but is it accurate?...or did I fumble the ball?

dante58701 said:

Hiya there Krusty! =^.^=

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Hiya mate!

dante58701 said:

Aye, that they be, but is it accurate?...or did I fumble the ball?

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Well without deconstructing it all myself, it looks pretty good. So unless we are both missing something major (unlikely but possible I suppose) I'd just go along with what you have there.

dante58701 said:

Side Question (Off Topic)

Shuriken

When throwing shuriken in excess of 2 (one per hand), how exactly does one throw more without having to draw them?

Do they draw and fire off shuriken?

Do they hold gobs of shuriken in their hands?

Do they juggle the shuriken?

Or does it depend on the type of shuriken?

Examples: Deck of Cards + Eclectic Shot, Needle shuriken, Star Shuriken, ect.

How exactly does this work when you can throw 36 shuriken in a single round (it is possible with the proper feats...we have a shuriken monkey in our gaming group).

Also...do deities get a divine bonus to damage? Because if they do...it isn't listed under their divine bonus for any deity.

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Hmmm... I've got a lvl 20 dedicated thrower build that gets 126 attacks per round... if I'm remembering the build correctly. I've never actually played it... it was just an exercise in how I could break the system. It included quick draw *shrug*