D&D 4th Edition Living 4th Edition Discussion Thread




+ Log in or register to post
Results 1 to 10 of 479

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)

    Phoenix8008's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Frostproof, FL
    Posts
    5,290

    ø Ignore Phoenix8008

    Living 4th Edition Discussion Thread

    Now that we have a forum specifically for Living 4th Edition, I thought it would be a good idea to bring the discussion thread over here instead of the 'Talking the Talk' forum where it's been. Here is a link to the original LEW 4th Edition Discussion thread.

    I've linked to this new thread from there as well so anybody that reads that one will end up here if they make it to the end of the thread. Unless there is some way to transport that whole thread over and merge it with this one??? That would be beyond my knowledge or ability though.

    Anyway, let the L4E discussion recommence!!

  2. #2
    Wunderbar! Thanks for the work Phoenix, et all.

    I look forward to helping make Living 4th an excellent and developed setting.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Atanatotatos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Europe.And the pbp boards
    Posts
    3,296
    Blog Entries
    1

    ø Ignore Atanatotatos
    So... a question to ask the facilitators-to-be (i think): do we allow genasi and swordmage (with relative feats and stuff),which will be available in a little while, from the start?
    Current PBP
    DM in:
    Ata's 4e PPvPP Arena


    Playing:
    Koryo of the Tiger's Rest in Voda Vosa's "Path of Enlightment"
    Belleros Arkeion in Sparky's "Thorantar"
    Thormir Brassbeard in EvolutionKB's "Lost-Eberron-4eStyle"
    Anostor Duran in covaithe's "Death's Reach"

    In L4W:
    Alexander Duran, Proud member of the MMC
    in:
    Phoenix8008's "The Captain's Caper"
    "Redblade's Riches"
    Hadarai Polemarkos
    in:
    KenHood's "TURTLEDOME!:Battle Bone"

    In LEB:
    Thusk Tharashk Duran

    Come join us in the Shifting Seas and Transitive Isles of Living 4th Edition, amazing adventures and great fun guaranteed!
    Then to play community 4e in Eberron join us in LEB too! Give life to your characters and contribute to the living settings!



    Please excuse my poor English. It is not my first language.

  4. #4
    Community Supporter COPPER SUBSCRIBER
    Defender (Lvl 8)

    covaithe's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    4,971

    ø Ignore covaithe
    My personal preference is to get things rolling with as simple a ruleset as possible, and allow more content in a bit down the road. This is at least partly due to the fact that I'm still struggling to grasp the contents of the PHB, though. Someone (Velmont? Stonegod? not sure...) mentioned in the old discussion thread the idea of a moratorium on newly released content until it had been out for six months, to allow for balance issues and errata to be addressed. That seems sensible to me.
    My games

    Check out Living 4th Edition, a community-run 4e D&D living world open to all. Now open for character and adventure submissions!

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Atanatotatos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Europe.And the pbp boards
    Posts
    3,296
    Blog Entries
    1

    ø Ignore Atanatotatos
    If it took six months we shouldn't be playing 4e though :P. Well, I guess we'll have time to talk about this. I see a lot of people eager to play swordmages, though.
    Current PBP
    DM in:
    Ata's 4e PPvPP Arena


    Playing:
    Koryo of the Tiger's Rest in Voda Vosa's "Path of Enlightment"
    Belleros Arkeion in Sparky's "Thorantar"
    Thormir Brassbeard in EvolutionKB's "Lost-Eberron-4eStyle"
    Anostor Duran in covaithe's "Death's Reach"

    In L4W:
    Alexander Duran, Proud member of the MMC
    in:
    Phoenix8008's "The Captain's Caper"
    "Redblade's Riches"
    Hadarai Polemarkos
    in:
    KenHood's "TURTLEDOME!:Battle Bone"

    In LEB:
    Thusk Tharashk Duran

    Come join us in the Shifting Seas and Transitive Isles of Living 4th Edition, amazing adventures and great fun guaranteed!
    Then to play community 4e in Eberron join us in LEB too! Give life to your characters and contribute to the living settings!



    Please excuse my poor English. It is not my first language.

  6. #6
    Registered User


    Erekose13's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    9,352
    Blog Entries
    7

    ø Ignore Erekose13
    Six months is the period of time we use at LEB to allow DMs and Judges enough time to purchase proposed source books at possibly less than cover price. That way when something like Dragonmarked first came out we could wait 6 months for it to start showing up on Ebay or Amazon Marketplace. In general it served as a great rule to allow Judges to look at the material before it was proposed and decide what they would and would not want in the game.

    Given that 4e is so new, I'd suggest handling even the free D&DI material the same way as it will give those who must judge balance time to integrate the core ruleset and understand the way that it works.
    Erekose13
    Art by Uneide!
    PbP

    [Living 4th Edition]
    Callen Stewart Human Wizard 8
    Beyrk Verkunder Hobgoblin Bard 3

    [Living Eberron]
    Gogmorthak d'Tharashk Orc Barbarian 6

  7. #7
    Supressive Overlord
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Bront's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    22,818

    ø Ignore Bront
    Quote Originally Posted by covaithe View Post
    My personal preference is to get things rolling with as simple a ruleset as possible, and allow more content in a bit down the road. This is at least partly due to the fact that I'm still struggling to grasp the contents of the PHB, though. Someone (Velmont? Stonegod? not sure...) mentioned in the old discussion thread the idea of a moratorium on newly released content until it had been out for six months, to allow for balance issues and errata to be addressed. That seems sensible to me.
    The 6 month rule was generated for LEB for several reasons.

    1) It gave players and judges time to acquire and digest the content.

    2) It gave time to possibly see it used in a game.

    3) It gave it time to be errataed.

    Here's problems without a 6 month rule:
    Player A wants something in the new Complete masseuse that came out earlier today. None of the judges have seen the book, so can't approve it, Player A gets upset.

    Player B wants to use a power in the new Complete Overkill that came out a week ago. Judge A has it, so can vouge for it, and the other judges approve it (having read it or not).

    GM A has a player in a game who is using a new power from a book that hasn't been released in his area yet, or was sold out and is on backorder.

    Basicly, the 6 month rule prevents a lot of initial problems, and is mostly a default "Got to wait 6 months rule" to give judges, players, and GMs time to buy, learn, and adapt to new rules. Obviously, the core books you're not nessessarily waiting on (though those may end up being out 6 months before you actualy start).

    I might suggest using this rule instead:
    Wait 3 Months on Core products (PHBs, DMGs, and MMs). However, content is automatically approved unless otherwise proposed.

    Wait 6 Months on Complimentary products (Complete books, Power Books, New power sources not introduced via the core books, etc). Products from these books need to be approved specifically

    This will give you some flexability, keep all the core stuff in the game, and allow a controlled influx of suplimentary stuff. I would also recommend limiting it to WOTC stuff. It removes some potentialy good stuff from inclusion, but it also limits the scope of things.

    This worked well enough for us in LEB.

  8. #8
    Registered User COPPER SUBSCRIBER
    Waghalter (Lvl 7)

    garyh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    5,840

    ø Ignore garyh
    Quote Originally Posted by Bront View Post
    The 6 month rule was generated for LEB for several reasons....

    I might suggest using this rule instead:
    Wait 3 Months on Core products (PHBs, DMGs, and MMs). However, content is automatically approved unless otherwise proposed.

    Wait 6 Months on Complimentary products (Complete books, Power Books, New power sources not introduced via the core books, etc). Products from these books need to be approved specifically

    ...

    This worked well enough for us in LEB.
    These are great points, and I'm pretty much convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bront View Post
    I'm going to make a suggestion here.

    I don't think you should allow "Playtesting" material...
    Bront, you're on a roll. You've madea good case for this too. Plus, if someone's itching to playtest something, a regular PbP game is a lot easier to accomdate that.

    Quote Originally Posted by covaithe View Post
    I think that one of the really nice things about LEW is that you don't need to own any books to play or DM in it. All of the rules, content, and sources are freely available online.

    We won't be able to do that in L4W; to play you'll at least need a PHB, and to DM you'll need probably a DMG and MM as well. I'm not sure it will be possible, but it would be really nice if the PHB were all you needed to own in order to participate fully in L4W.

    On the other hand, it's certainly true that people who buy the PHB2 are going to want to use it, too. I'm not sure what to do about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by renau1g View Post
    Well, with the PHB everyone can fully participate in L4W, they just can only use the information they have. Just like in LEB, I only had EBCS, while there were quite a few more approved sources out there that I wasn't able to make my character with.
    I agree with Renau1g. There's nothing stopping anyone from playing with just the PHB1, and if the judges are doing their job, they won't be underpowered from not having the new stuff. If someone wants to DM, chances are they probably already have the DMG/MM.
    Gary Hoggatt - www.garyh.net
    "Such heroic nonsense..."
    Living 4th Edition - Join EN World's community-created Play-by-Post world! Adventure awaits you in the Transitive Isles!

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Graf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    undisclosed
    Posts
    3,994
    Blog Entries
    21

    ø Ignore Graf
    Glad to see things are steaming along.

    Still catching up. We need more nominations for "decision makers" (facilitator/judge/etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Halford View Post
    I also wanted to raise the idea of retraining. If we eventually decide to add new content, especially if it comes in the form of whole books, it only seems fair that existent characters get the chance to use it. Not a real concern aty this stage, but something worth considering for the future.
    Agree strongly. Wanted to suggest some sort of explicit system. Couldn't find time yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halford View Post
    can we rename Tortuga?
    Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by covaithe View Post
    Regarding backstory for the Daunton Five (I admit I haven't come up with a better name than that... but I'm not sure we need to...), I'm thinking that there should be relatively few well-documented episodes in their history, but lots of legends, hearsay, songs, stories that have grown in the retelling, and so forth. That way they can have a larger-than-life impact on the world, but we don't have to actually write up their entire adventuring career. Characters can use the Five in their backstories without fear of contradicting the official canon.
    agree strongly

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Shatterstone View Post
    Maybe its just an assumption but why is it that we assume that all adventures are good? Not every adventure traveling the land has the noblest of hearts… Obviously, it helps (mostly the DM but the players too) but it doesn’t seem like it’s a flat-out requirement if the players/DM know what is expected… Right?
    "Good" is relative.
    Adventurers kill sentient creatures and take their stuff in a quest to amass personal power.

    At the same time? "Evil PCs" are almost invariably annoying and destructive. DnD runs on trust. You meet a new guy out in the swamp and five minutes later you're fighting back to back against orcs.

    That's how it works.

    Punishing people for playing that way (i.e. as good people) by allowing characters who are in the setting with the goal of taking advatange of that trust seems counter productive.

    I had an idea to limit it involving displeasing the gods but it was bad. I'll see if I can think of something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by covaithe View Post
    The Daunton Five might have consisted of these individuals:
    I like them. They "fit" well. I'd tweak maybe 10% add more overtly negative points, and make the dragonborn a bit less of a "follower". Will see if I can edit it or maybe we should leave it for development in play?

    great fluffl

    On the wall of the Hanged Man is a hand-drawn map behind a glass frame. Below the map is a letter in the same hand:

    "Dear Mayor Brunt,

    As you requested, here is our most recent map of the seas and coasts of the islands near Daunton. I caution you against relying on it too heavily, since, as you know, distances and even landmarks are subject to change when the fog rolls in. Still, with some caution, this map should be useful for many years yet.

    You will note that very little is known of the interior of the larger islands, particularly Argonel and Kestoriel. The Feywild is strongest there, and direction and distance are easily confused. The few maps we have made of the region have been found to be physically impossible when examined back in Bacarte. They are full of tricks and illusions, like the picture in your office of the stairway that always ascends, circling back on its own base without ever going down. The mountains, and to some extent the larger rivers, can be seen from a great distance and so we are confident enough of their location, though more so on Argonel than Serenal. Perhaps the Imperials in Nova Renata might have better information.

    No other islands have recently drifted within sight of our vessels. We will continue to inform you if that situation changes.

    I remain your respectful colleague,

    Kanesk Geniker,
    Senior Merchant of the Free Merchants of Bacarte"




    This is my attempt at the best of two worlds: having a map, and having the flexibility to not worry too much about the details of the map. The map itself is a crappy scan of a pencil drawing. Easy enough to clean up, but it will take me some time.[/quote]
    I like the history a lot.
    It forgrounds the "fact" that the setting is unsettled.

    I'd prefer if the islands were a smaller. Right now Argonal looks like North America on my screen. Again, I'm a strong poponenet of having a modular world. I'd prefer "a not a map" that is less of a map. Where the cities seem bigger and the world less locked in.

    I have one other question/point: If Pentincia is going to be that big could it be a bunch of islands that are stuck together?

    I love the general feel of the map though. It's just a scale/flavor debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonegod View Post
    I haven't played around w/ the wiki, but it seems fine (though there should be a forum link to the wiki for each character for each of access). The issue one would have to be concerned with is possible judge spoofing (or edits by canny players who can change the approved line). The forum thread (controlled by the judges) would be place to enforce this double check.
    Great catch. We need to remember to do this.
    Personally I'm bullish on the wiki since anybody who tries anything will be recorded.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonegod View Post
    - # of judges and such: Odd numbers good, but you should have some mechanism for making sure a lone voice doesn't get drowned out. We have our solution to this in LEB as well: 3 Yes with no No is a pass, but you need 4 Yeses if you have a single No.
    All details for the above here.
    Without going on a rant about things of this nature.... I'm strongly in favor of a system where a facilitator can raise a "major objection".

    I.e. someone can say, in a vote, "I have a major objection" and the vote doesn't proceed until the person withdraws their objection (i.e. a concensus of some sort can be met -- note: this doens't mean they vote yes. They can still vote "no" but it's an emergency brake cord to insure the group is respecting each other's opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by covaithe View Post
    To steal a page from LEB's book, I will implement the above plan if any one of these conditions is met:
    • Three people say "yes, do it" and no one says "no, wait" within some reasonable amout of time.
    • Four people say "yes, do it" and no more than one person says "no, wait"

    I think this is a fantastic method of doing things.
    Interested in playing 4th edition online? The Living 4th EnWorld Campaign is open! [character creation wiki forum]
    I am in an interesting period of my life; I will post in games that I run three times a week (M,W,F); and try to maintain obligations in existing games.
    ...disquieting...
    There was no end to his patience and endurance. He played day and night, his obsession was somewhat disquieting. It was less as if he were playing to dispel gloom or beguile tedium than as if he were giving himself up to the fangs of gaming devils."
    Kawabata Yasunari - The Master of Go

+ Log in or register to post

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion - General Discussion Thread 2010-11
    By Living Enworld Judge in forum Living EN World
    Replies: 205
    Last Post: Tuesday, 4th September, 2012, 05:03 PM
  2. Living Supers - General Discussion Thread
    By Living Supers Judge in forum Talking the Talk
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Wednesday, 19th October, 2005, 08:11 AM
  3. LIVING GREYHAWK: DM's discussion group set up
    By Emirikol in forum RPGs & Tabletop Gaming Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Friday, 30th January, 2004, 04:13 PM
  4. (Discussion) Chatroom Living Enworld Games
    By Creamsteak in forum Living EN World
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Monday, 13th October, 2003, 01:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •