Living 4th Edition Discussion Thread

The Goblin King · Aug 21, 2008

Erekose13 said:
I think we'll need a tutorial on creating characters for the wiki. I've never done any wiki work before and while I've created my first character (stats only) in notepad, I have no clue how to add him in there. I have used the template so I know he'll come out right and will have lots of feedback on changes to the template now that I've used it a bit. But I'd like to put him up and test some things.

I had a long post but got timed out. The way I do it is to type the name of the page in the search box and hit Go. Click the link to create the page. Copy/paste text and save page.

For the record I would just like to point out that I don't actually know what I am doing. My knowledge or HTML programming is self-taught info I've picked up from reading websites.

Erekose13 · Aug 21, 2008

Okay well that was easy.

http://www.enworld.org/wiki/index.php/L4W:PC:Callen_Stewart

Comments on the Template

Colours are iffy. I'll work on suggestions

Senses ends up way off to the side, not sure why it needs to be there
Should combine perception with senses

Alignment and Languages can go on the same line.

Spacing on the ability table needs to be increased

Suggestion that people use the D&DI compendium to link to powers, feats, class, skills, etc.
- this requires use of D&DI once the free period is over though - http://ww2.wizards.com/dnd/insider/power.aspx?id=463
- damn I wish there was a free SRD of this stuff, it might be possible to post power descriptions once the Fan GSL is posted.

Need a spot for Rituals

Description and Background should go after Equipment

Personality, Region, Kicker, Hook should all be incorporated into it.
Action points too.

Show your work is requested but looks messy in the stat block. If we want it presented at the end we should provide a template for that too.

Damage Worksheet is ineffective to list combat options.
- something similar to this should be used: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4238448#post4238448

Graf · Aug 22, 2008

Ere, thanks for doing it. I'm loving that. Now all we need is the math section.

Graf · Aug 22, 2008

I'm not interesting in "dumping" the regional benefits. We've spent soooo much time going back and forth on each tichy little frigging detail to just give up.

Especially since the original comments were all "they're too weak".
I've spent a lot of time trying to think about giving out abilities that have almost no game impact and/or which can be ignored by a DM who wants to avoid them but which give some interesting roleplaying.

(Some people hated the fact that DMs can bypass them if they want and went on a tear about but I still think is a good design feature...)

They're not perfect yet but I think we should actually look and think about them specifically.

We -can- have them as an option for voting though. The setting doesn't require them.
[d]--[/d]

I also have no interest in making new feats, either for gods or regions. Nobody's got the design chops to get it perfect yet and there is a vast divergence between facilitators .

Graf · Aug 22, 2008

Can we get opinions on the hooks and kickers too?
(LEB/LEW had PRIVATE and PUBLIC info, but it seemed like calling things plot hooks was a better move).

I see kickers as potentially facilitating solo games (which have a sort of small audience here on EnWorld, it'd be interesting to see some of those people try out L4W).

Graf · Aug 22, 2008

It looks like OOC points is almost decided. Will leave it open for a few days but if you want to have a say check out the discussion thread and then cast you vote!

garyh · Aug 22, 2008

Graf said:
I also have no interest in making new feats, either for gods or regions. Nobody's got the design chops to get it perfect yet and there is a vast divergence between facilitators .

At most, I think we could "borrow" PHB divine feats for our deities.

Graf said:
Can we get opinions on the hooks and kickers too?
(LEB/LEW had PRIVATE and PUBLIC info, but it seemed like calling things plot hooks was a better move).

I see kickers as potentially facilitating solo games (which have a sort of small audience here on EnWorld, it'd be interesting to see some of those people try out L4W).

I think hooks and kickers area good idea, and I think encouraging smaller group / solo games is fine. Helps keep things moving.

Graf · Aug 22, 2008

> At most, I think we could "borrow" PHB divine feats for our deities.
This is what I was thinking as well. Just let a cleric pick one.

>I think hooks and kickers area good idea, and I think encouraging
>smaller group / solo games is fine. Helps keep things moving.
Glad you like it!

> The Illithid Empire Campaign Setting immediately stood
> out to me as fascinating and compelling, but then I'm
> biased towards githyanki-githzerai-illithid games.
I love Gith/illithid stuff two. There are a few issues
1. Wizards considers them their IP (other people mentioned it... but I admit that it gives me significant pause)
2. Illithids are high level... L4W is very low level.

If people get a level a year then it will be 10 years before we even get out of heroic teir.

I'm happy to have mind controlling abberations.... I think we need to develop our own, heroic teir, type threats to fill that area though.

covaithe · Aug 22, 2008

Thanks for your comments on the template, ek13. Definitely on my list of things to look closely at soon.

Re hooks and kickers: I think they should be encouraged, but not required. I think requiring them will discourage some players from joining, and place an extra burden on the character judges.

covaithe · Aug 24, 2008

I spent a bunch of time today banging around wiki formatting, and put up another character sheet: Quagmire Weaselcrust.

I haven't tried to address Erekose13's comments, though having gone through the process myself, I agree with almost all of them. My main concerns with this exercise were 1) to make an actual character that I intend to play, and 2) to provide a fully detailed "show your work" section, as a prototype of something that could become part of the template. It's possibly too detailed, really, but... Well, take a look at it, particularly people who are considering being character judges. Play around with the formatting. Try making your own character, using this as a prototype or just winging it.

I've run out of time to play with this today, but I'll try to address erekose13's comments tomorrow.