WotC to Revise D&D 4th Edition GSL and SRD

[Ourph]

Then I wonder why you purchased 4e, from WotC, considering the behavior on their boards (i.e. "people associated with" WotC, using your words).

A rather interesting position of yours.

It's pretty simple actually.

I didn't need the WotC boards to inform me about D&D 4e, I got all the info I needed about 4e from ENWorld, from posters (both WotC employees and fans) who didn't have a "let's hope Paizo fails" attitude. Nothing in the threads I read about 4e turned me off. In fact, the vast majority of people posting information about 4e had a positive, helpful vibe.

When I went looking for the same kind of info from the Paizo boards and threads here on ENWorld about Pathfinder, I encountered a bunch of posts from Paizo fans and employees that were childish and rude, full of the "let's hope WotC fails" attitude that soured me on the whole game.

[Wicht]

I encountered a bunch of posts from Paizo fans and employees that were childish and rude, full of the "let's hope WotC fails" attitude that soured me on the whole game.

Might I challenge you to find me an example of a Paizo employee that wrote something childish, rude, or filled with hope for WotC failure.

I will believe it when I see it but not until as I think I have read most of what Paizo employees have written and can't recall anything even close. Except once... and that was a bit of bitterness about having stuff one of them had spent a lifetime writing about being tossed out the window. But even then it was neither rude nor childish nor did it wish ill upon anyone.

[Fifth Element]

Might I challenge you to find me an example of a Paizo employee that wrote something childish, rude, or filled with hope for WotC failure.

Might I ask that you do this privately? Please don't bring another board's edition wars here.

[Wicht]

Might I ask that you do this privately? Please don't bring another board's edition wars here.

Sorry.

I did not think it right to make accusations about specific individuals without proof and the employees of Paizo are not faceless entities. But I will withdraw the request.

[Ourph]

Sorry.

I did not think it right to make accusations about specific individuals without proof and the employees of Paizo are not faceless entities. But I will withdraw the request.

I didn't make any accusations, I posted a personal anecdote. This is the internet, not a court of law. I'm not required to provide "evidence" to back up my personal opinion. If you prefer to believe my opinion is wrong, feel free.

[billd91]

I didn't make any accusations, I posted a personal anecdote. This is the internet, not a court of law. I'm not required to provide "evidence" to back up my personal opinion. If you prefer to believe my opinion is wrong, feel free.

Yes, it's not a court of law, but if you're going to cast aspersions about some childish posts or make any other dubious or controversial claim, you should either back it up or back it off.

[Orius]

So the half on this poll here http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235481 who are not switching are non-representative? How about the 150+ people I talked to a week and a half ago at the convention in Spokane where I was a guest, half of whom didn't have very positive things to say about 4E? Or how about the local game store where I'm seeing the same trend? I suppose that you'd count that as anecdotal, or better yet, question my integrity since I've made up my mind about which game I'm playing.

Surely you know few people take internet polls seriously. In any case, there's no clear majority opinion in that poll, complete 4e and no 4e at all are tied, tried 4e and went back comes in 3rd, with various mixes between the two editions dividing the rest of the results. That poll doesn't convince me of 4e's success or lack thereof. Also, there's only 904 total votes while ENWorld has over 74,000 members, so that's only a small fraction of forum members (addmittedly many of those 74,000 are probably inactive).

And your own experiences are anecdotal, and may or may not reflect wider trends among D&D players as a whole. I'm not calling you a liar, I simply disagree with your opinion on that matter, that's all.

[billd91]

Also, there's only 904 total votes while ENWorld has over 74,000 members, so that's only a small fraction of forum members (addmittedly many of those 74,000 are probably inactive).

Small fractions are fine - it's the self-selection of respondents that drives up the statistical error.

[Delta]

Also, there's only 904 total votes while ENWorld has over 74,000 members, so that's only a small fraction of forum members (addmittedly many of those 74,000 are probably inactive).

I've been saying this a lot lately -- The overall population number is completely irrelevant to the accuracy of any poll (internet or not, self-selected or not). If the poll fails to be representative, it has nothing to do with the size of the fraction polled.

Statistical sampling theory in fact goes and assumes that you've got an infinite sized population, because it totally doesn't matter what that number is, and the math is simpler that way. It's when the fraction polled gets too big (over 5%) that you have to do an a bit more calculation to account for it. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_...opulation_size

[Vocenoctum]

I've been saying this a lot lately -- The overall population number is completely irrelevant to the accuracy of any poll (internet or not, self-selected or not). If the poll fails to be representative, it has nothing to do with the size of the fraction polled.

Statistical sampling theory in fact goes and assumes that you've got an infinite sized population, because it totally doesn't matter what that number is, and the math is simpler that way. It's when the fraction polled gets too big (over 5%) that you have to do an a bit more calculation to account for it. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_...opulation_size

The "added math" is to account for the larger sampling having a smaller margin of error... in other words, more accurate. While obviously hyperbole, a smaller margin of error is not "completely irrelevant to the accuracy...".

Either way, taking a poll from ENWorld and applying it to D&D Fanbase as a whole is worthless.