[Proposal] The Transitive Isles

covaithe · Aug 13, 2008

This thread is to talk about the Transitive Isles setting proposal.

covaithe · Aug 13, 2008

I had a read through this proposal's wiki pages, too. I was looking for things that need addressing before this setting proposal can be considered viable, i.e. ready to play in. There's not a lot; this setting is damn near ready to go. Here's what I did write down, though:

Regional benefits need to be discussed and balanced.
Should separate out the character creation rules (e.g. 25 point buy, must use approved template, MM races will be subject to scrutiny for balance issues as well as correctness) from the setting stuff. It may go back together in the same document later once we've decided on a setting
map. We ought to have one, even if it's vague and known to be inaccurate. I don't care if it's the one I drew or not.
Kingdom of Allaria? I just noticed this in the backstory of Daunton. Sounds good, but maybe a paragraph of general knowledge is called for.
Brotherhood of the Bright Eon? This is the cult that brought down the Five. Maybe a bit of backstory on them and what they stand for? Could be a good recurring villain. I admit I'm picking nits a bit in pointing out this one; it could be ignored. Although, reading farther, it seems like they took down the Brotherhood of the Spun Staff too, and have a complete book of the portal codes? Maybe they're more important...
If Daunton is going to have a Library as part of its regional benefits, there should be a section on the library in the wiki.
Island #3. I think I called this Kestoriel on my map. Needs a writeup. There was an early suggestion that this island could be fey-linked. That might tie in well with the bit in Daunton's writeup about how the Five got the fey to leave Daunton's island mostly alone, but now they're coming back.
Imperium needs a final writeup based on discussions page.
Pantheon needs to be integrated into the setting proposal. Origin story. I need to go over how gods work in 4e again, but I feel like there's more to be done there, mechanically speaking.
Overall, needs just a bit more work on consistency, proofreading, using the right names in all the right places (there are still a few instances of "island #5" and such).

Again, this is all just my opinion.

garyh · Aug 13, 2008

I really like the Shifting Seas idea. It really lends itself to a shared world where DMs might go different directions with things like travel, and lets new elements be easily added in.

I'm also a huge fan of Bacarte. Everything is better with pirates, and it gives a great way to easily put the Monster Manual races into play.

The Imperium is also promising. Having them play a small role in the local area works, and then allows for a natural place to go when PC's are powerful enough to go abroad in the world.

garyh · Aug 13, 2008

Crosspost! Let me comment on your comments, covaithe.

covaithe said:
[*] Regional benefits need to be discussed and balanced.

I'd like to see FR style regional benefits as well. They don't look too hard to implement, it'll just take some time and creativity.

[*] Should separate out the character creation rules (e.g. 25 point buy, must use approved template, MM races will be subject to scrutiny for balance issues as well as correctness) from the setting stuff. It may go back together in the same document later once we've decided on a setting

Agreed. I think, outside of regional benefits, setting and chargen should be handeled separately.

[*] map. We ought to have one, even if it's vague and known to be inaccurate. I don't care if it's the one I drew or not.

Do you have a link to your map? I think I saw it, but want to make sure. I'm thinking using a GIMP/hex map like Goblin King's Zheen maps would be good. Nice, old school flavor, and easy for DM's to update with a consistent look

[*] Kingdom of Allaria? I just noticed this in the backstory of Daunton. Sounds good, but maybe a paragraph of general knowledge is called for.

Agreed. That general knowledge doesn't even have to be accurate. Could be legend, given the time elapsed.

[*] Brotherhood of the Bright Eon? This is the cult that brought down the Five. Maybe a bit of backstory on them and what they stand for? Could be a good recurring villain. I admit I'm picking nits a bit in pointing out this one; it could be ignored. Although, reading farther, it seems like they took down the Brotherhood of the Spun Staff too, and have a complete book of the portal codes? Maybe they're more important...

Agreed. An evil cult makes a great villain. The Five might have broken the cult, but there could be isolated cells still causing trouble that might come together for bigger mischief.

[*] If Daunton is going to have a Library as part of its regional benefits, there should be a section on the library in the wiki.

Good idea.

[*] Island #3. I think I called this Kestoriel on my map. Needs a writeup. There was an early suggestion that this island could be fey-linked. That might tie in well with the bit in Daunton's writeup about how the Five got the fey to leave Daunton's island mostly alone, but now they're coming back.

Fey works, and isn't too present on the other isles, so including it here makes sense.

[*] Imperium needs a final writeup based on discussions page.

Yup. I'm thinking the Imperium could be relatively recent. 5, 10 years or so. So they haven't had a chance to change the other isles too much, or give up hope of the mother country finding them.

[*] Pantheon needs to be integrated into the setting proposal. Origin story. I need to go over how gods work in 4e again, but I feel like there's more to be done there, mechanically speaking.

I need to read up more on the previous pantheon discussions. I like the idea of 7-12 dieties, with different names in different cultures. I don't want to see 100's of dieties.

I think there's a lot of potential in this setting, and agree that it's not too far from being playable.

covaithe · Aug 13, 2008

Addressing something Graf mentioned a while ago, that I didn't get around to responding to promptly. Sorry!

Graf said:
I'd prefer if the islands were a smaller. Right now Argonal looks like North America on my screen. Again, I'm a strong poponenet of having a modular world. I'd prefer "a not a map" that is less of a map. Where the cities seem bigger and the world less locked in.

I forgot to include a scale on the map, but I certainly didn't see Argonel being the size of North America. I was shooting for Ireland, actually; about 300 miles north to south, and maybe 200 east-west. Big enough that it takes a few weeks to walk from one end to the other, but small enough that you could sail around it in a week. Also big enough that the far side is remote and kind of mysterious to the people of Daunton. If it's only 50 miles away, you'd expect settlements and regular travel.

covaithe · Aug 13, 2008

I first posted the map in question here, but it's turned up one or two other places as well as part of a quote. It's just hand drawn, so not terribly easy to update. I confess a certain fondness for it, though...

garyh · Aug 13, 2008

covaithe said:
I first posted the map in question here, but it's turned up one or two other places as well as part of a quote. It's just hand drawn, so not terribly easy to update. I confess a certain fondness for it, though...

That's the one I was thinking of. It's nice, and hand-drawn is cool from an "in universe" point of view. Couple issues I see are that I think Daunton's isle might dwarf the others a bit TOO much, and that the isles look a bit too close together to me.

I'll try to take a stab at drafting a GIMP/hex version tonight. Doesn't hurt to toss more ideas out there, we can always take the best of them and combine them.

Graf · Aug 14, 2008

Feedback! A whole thread.
I feel drunk with pleasure...

[d]--[/d]

I have a map going already actually.
PS Not drawing it myself.

Here's the current version; it's still being worked on. (I didn't want to mention it until it was done, but I don't want people to get frustrated if they're thoughts aren't included... it's happening on a budget and there is only so much futzing that can be paid for)

Graf · Aug 14, 2008

Everything I haven't quoted I agree with 100% and am actively working on.

covaithe said:
Regional benefits need to be discussed and balanced.

garyh said:
I'd like to see FR style regional benefits as well. They don't look too hard to implement, it'll just take some time and creativity.

I'd love to have help/input (especially specific input)
My general plan is +1 to one skill, +4 or so to something weird.
Neither should effect combat much.

covaithe said:
Should separate out the character creation rules (e.g. 25 point buy, must use approved template, MM races will be subject to scrutiny for balance issues as well as correctness) from the setting stuff. It may go back together in the same document later once we've decided on a setting

garyh said:
Agreed. I think, outside of regional benefits, setting and chargen should be handeled separately.

Either of you want to take charge of "generalizing the chargen stuff"? I'm basically creating chargen stuff because you need it to create a character and play in the world.

covaithe said:
Kingdom of Allaria? I just noticed this in the backstory of Daunton. Sounds good, but maybe a paragraph of general knowledge is called for.

garyh said:
Agreed. That general knowledge doesn't even have to be accurate. Could be legend, given the time elapsed.

edit: OK. So it go deleted during an update. Here's what I'm talking about with this comment.

I pulled it more or less directly from Zheen, with some extra stuff.

It's a way for people like GK and Halford to have their "big unexplored continent that we can fill in" as well as explain where the "culture and civilization of Daunton" came from.

It's not an idea I'm against, I just don't want the whole campaign world to be rigidly defined geographically when the game starts. Pushing the whole zone "out" gives us space. Maybe the whole living thing revolves around "reclaiming Allaria" maybe it doesn't.

If I write more I fear that they'll just be unhappy with it; since they specifically don't want a setting with any details. Since it's an "element added for others" I'm kind concerned about touching it too much.

Everything in the setting already has my finger prints all over it... and that's not so hot since I think my likes and dislikes are fairly specific.

covaithe said:
Brotherhood of the Bright Eon? This is the cult that brought down the Five. Maybe a bit of backstory on them and what they stand for? Could be a good recurring villain. I admit I'm picking nits a bit in pointing out this one; it could be ignored. Although, reading farther, it seems like they took down the Brotherhood of the Spun Staff too, and have a complete book of the portal codes? Maybe they're more important...

garyh said:
Agreed. An evil cult makes a great villain. The Five might have broken the cult, but there could be isolated cells still causing trouble that might come together for bigger mischief.

We're all on the same page with how/what they're supposed to be.
I have more ideas about them, but I'm loath to define them. They don't -have- to be well known for the setting to start. They can be a mystery that people develop and unravel together.

covaithe said:
Island #3. I think I called this Kestoriel on my map. Needs a writeup. There was an early suggestion that this island could be fey-linked. That might tie in well with the bit in Daunton's writeup about how the Five got the fey to leave Daunton's island mostly alone, but now they're coming back.

garyh said:
Fey works, and isn't too present on the other isles, so including it here makes sense.

Fey is actually supposed to be a huge part of the Daunton interior thing.

I'm planning on having a massive rift deep into the island; otherwise undeveloped so DMs can play.

I was also thinking of having the whole island be covered with mangrove trees that hold it together, calling it Kythira the living isle and having it be sacred to ~~Aphrodite~~ Aphrodeys (young lovers sneak away for trysts, herbalists to gather charms for love potions, etc)

I was trying to wait for somebody to do feedback... but then I was getting the map done yesterday and I needed to do something with it other than have it be a blob....

covaithe said:
I need to go over how gods work in 4e again, but I feel like there's more to be done there, mechanically speaking.

The only way that gods matter is that your choice gives you access to a divine feat.

Personally? I say we just let people pick one appropriate feat from the PhB and leave it at that.

garyh said:
I need to read up more on the previous pantheon discussions. I like the idea of 7-12 dieties, with different names in different cultures. I don't want to see 100's of dieties.

You, sir, want to look at the new gods page.

covaithe said:
Overall, needs just a bit more work on consistency, proofreading, using the right names in all the right places (there are still a few instances of "island #5" and such).

garyh said:
I think there's a lot of potential in this setting, and agree that it's not too far from being playable.

I'm glad we agree about the necessary level of detail.

My big issues with the current level of readiness is just that
1. my writing is unclear and poor
2. there hasn't been too much feedback, few eyes = lower quality.

I don't mind having the setting rejected, but I'd be frustrated if it were because of poor communication.

I've attached the next map.

garyh · Aug 14, 2008

Graf said:
I have a map going already actually.
PS Not drawing it myself.

That... that's a really good map. My only question is scale - how long is the central isle north-south?

Graf said:
I'd love to have help/input (especially specific input)
My general plan is +1 to one skill, +4 or so to something weird.
Neither should effect combat much.

Either of you want to take charge of "generalizing the chargen stuff"? I'm basically creating chargen stuff because you need it to create a character and play in the world.

I'll see what I can come up with on the regions. I think we only need five regions to start (Daunton, Bacarte, Crescent Isle, Imperium, and Fey Island).

As for taking on chargen as a whole, I think we have the general thrust of it: Use any PHB or MM race, any PHB class, 25 point buy, and a region. Outside of that (and potential use of OOC points), what else do we need to figure?

The only way that gods matter is that your choice gives you access to a divine feat.

Personally? I say we just let people pick one appropriate feat from the PhB and leave it at that.

Agreed, lets just assign PHB god feats to L4E gods as much as possible.