Converting Forgotten Realms monsters

freyar · Apr 16, 2010

Ok, most of what we need from the shield guardian will just go in the flavor text (I kind of wonder if we should include something about multiple people using the key word, supposing that PCs might read the owner's thoughts or something):

When it is fashioned, a vault guardian is keyed to a particular magical key word. A creature that tells the vault guardian the key word becomes that vault guardian's master. Typically, the creator of the vault guardian passes the key word to the golem's new owner after construction is completed. A vault guardian obeys its master’s verbal commands to the best of its ability. It can also be keyed to perform specific tasks at specific times or when certain conditions are met.

Cleon · Apr 18, 2010

freyar said:
Ok, most of what we need from the shield guardian will just go in the flavor text (I kind of wonder if we should include something about multiple people using the key word, supposing that PCs might read the owner's thoughts or something):

When it is fashioned, a vault guardian is keyed to a particular magical key word. A creature that tells the vault guardian the key word becomes that vault guardian's master. Typically, the creator of the vault guardian passes the key word to the golem's new owner after construction is completed. A vault guardian obeys its master’s verbal commands to the best of its ability. It can also be keyed to perform specific tasks at specific times or when certain conditions are met.

Including that is fine by me.

We don't really need it, since 3E Constructs seldom state how they're operated, but I like to see the details.

What else do we have to decide on. All I can see is flavour text and the following:

Challenge Rating: x - They look around CR5 to me.

Advancement x - Methinks 9-12 HD (Medium); 13-24 HD (Large).

The detect intruders SQ lacks a caster level.
CL 8th like the HD?
CL 9th, the minimum caster level for true seeing?

Shade · Apr 19, 2010

CR 6? They're almost as good as flesh golems, with a much higher AC and the ability to bypass many defenses (not just DR, but invisibility, displacement, and the like).

I think I prefer CL 9th. Half the time, those "always active" abilities just have an arbitrary CL not tied to any factor of the creature.

We need to determine the amount of electricity resistance. 10? 15?

A vault guardian stands 5 to 6 feet tall and weighs x pounds.

Vault guardians speak x. (They have Int 6, so could speak)

Cleon · Apr 19, 2010

Shade said:
CR 6? They're almost as good as flesh golems, with a much higher AC and the ability to bypass many defenses (not just DR, but invisibility, displacement, and the like).

I think I prefer CL 9th. Half the time, those "always active" abilities just have an arbitrary CL not tied to any factor of the creature.

Challenge Rating 6 seems fair, and I'd be happy with CL 9th.

Shade said:
We need to determine the amount of electricity resistance. 10? 15?

10 points would suit me.

Shade said:
A vault guardian stands 5 to 6 feet tall and weighs x pounds.

Let's see, they're a mix of steel and metal. A 5.5 foot Iron Golem would weigh ~480 pounds, a 5.5 foot Stone Golem ~456 pounds.

Not much difference there. Either 450 or 480 pounds then.

Shade said:
Vault guardians speak x. (They have Int 6, so could speak)

There's no mention of them being able to speak in their AD&D description, it just says they can comprehend 100 command phrases. That suggests "vault guardians can not speak, but understand one language known to their creator" will do, although "A vault guardian can speak one language known to its creator" could work.

Shade · Apr 20, 2010

"Cannot speak, but understands" works for me.

Updated.

Construction time...

Vault guardians are slightly cheaper to construct than stone or iron golems, but take nearly a year to fabricate and require additional enchantments to empower.

Vault guardians were first created by wizards in the nation of Sembia to protect the vast riches of Sembian trading consortiums. Years later, Zhentarim wizards learned the process for creating them, and offered to create vault guardians for various lords of Zhentil Keep at greatly inflated prices.

To create a vault guardian, a wizard of at least 18th level must first be able to cast the following spells (from memory or by scroll use) over the course of the creature’s creation: statue, detect magic, detect invisibility, haste, wall of iron, fabricate, true seeing, permanency, and either wish or limited wish. In addition, a breastplate from a suit of plate mail of etherealness must be fused into the creature, giving it the ability to strike those opponents that hover between planes of existence. If a wizard does not have access to these spells, the cost of construction of a vault guardian could exceed that of a stone or iron golem.

Dozens of intricate symbols must be carved across the forehead and forelimbs of the vault guardian, and rubies worth at least 500 gold pieces each are needed for its eyes.

During its creation, a vault guardian is given a certain key word that is used to control it. After creating the guardian, the wizard passes on this key word to the guardian’s new owner so she or he may properly control the creature and instruct it to guard a certain place or thing. A guardian’s key word can never be changed.

By the time construction of a vault guardian is complete, the total cost could range between 40,000 and 70,000 gold pieces, plus any added costs for spells. In turn, the wizard can sell the construct for up to three times the cost of fabrication. Many unscrupulous wizards have recorded the key words of their creations, using this knowledge at a later date to their advantage. The guardian can understand up to 100 command phrases in addition to its key word, and the key word must be spoken first when commanding it to any action.

Cleon · Apr 20, 2010

Shade said:
"Cannot speak, but understands" works for me.

Updated.

I was suggesting 450 or 480 pounds, not 450-480 pounds as a range. If we want a weight range to cover a 5-6 ft. golem I'd go for something like 400-600 pounds.

Shade said:
Construction time...

Those costs and prereqs seem rather high for a middle-of-the-range golem. They shouldn't be more expensive than a Flesh Golem.

Maybe CL 7th and 20,000 gp price?

Since they're make out of stone and metal I'm thinking Craft (armorsmithing) or Craft (sculpting) for them.

The listed prereqs of statue, detect magic, detect invisibility, haste, wall of iron, fabricate, true seeing, permanency, wish or limited wish and a breastplate of etherealness is an awful lot. I think we can cut those prereqs down to true seeing and limited wish, plus spiritual weapon for the "hit incorporeal creatures" bit.

I wouldn't use etherealness as it's a 9th level spell.

freyar · Apr 21, 2010

I agree with Cleon on pricing and spell prereqs. They shouldn't be that expensive or difficult (I think the original flavor went a bit overboard). Though, actually, I'm not fond of limited wish at CL 7. How about lesser geas? We've already got true seeing as the "beyond caster level" spell. Let's go with sculpting for the Craft, as that can include artistic use of metals.

Shade · Apr 21, 2010

Thus...

A vault guardian's body is chiseled from a single block of hard stone, weighing at least 1,000 pounds, which is then outfitted in a masterwork breastplate. Two rubies costing at least 250 gp apiece must be added as its "eyes". Assembling the body requires a DC 13 Craft (armorsmithing) check or a DC 13 Craft (sculpting) check.

CL 7th; Craft Construct, lesser geas, spiritual weapon, true seeing, caster must be at least 7th level; Price 20,000 gp; Cost 10,500 gp + 780 XP.

Look OK?

freyar · Apr 21, 2010

I'd limit to just Craft (sculpting), but I don't mind about armorsmithing much. Since this is supposed to be a wizardly creation, I don't think spiritual weapon should be a prereq now that I look at it more. Ghost touch weapons require plane shift, which seems perhaps a bit high level. Would greater magic weapon work again?