Defeating blindsight...

BlindKobold · Sep 13, 2002

Is there a way to defeat blindsight?

The only way I can come up with is going invisible, then using the psionic power control air to kill air movement and scent, use fly to prevent tremors on the floor and create silence around you.

Any other ideas?

tburdett · Sep 13, 2002

Become incorporeal or ethereal. Use the spell Meld into Stone.

I'll add more as they come to mind.

Kibo · Sep 13, 2002

Why not just silence?

Derren · Sep 13, 2002

Not all blindsight depends on hearing. But against bats it would work.

AuraSeer · Sep 13, 2002

Blindsight isn't the same ability for all monsters.

Some creatures' blindsight is purely audio. Against bats, darkmantles, destrachans or other sonar creatures, silence alone will negate the blindsight.

Grimlocks use a combination of sound and scent. Negate only one of those and they still get the effective benefit of the Blind-Fight feat. You need to eliminate both in order to actually negate the ability. (Note that in this case you don't even need actual invisibility, or even darkness, because grimlocks have no eyes.)

Tony Vargas · Sep 13, 2002

Stealth. As long as there's some way the blindsighted thingy can fail to spot you - there's cover that's meaningful to it's sense, or it's paying attention to something else or whatever - it should still be possible to sneak up on it. Hide/Sneak vs Spot/Liste, whichever seems most apropraite.

Of course, if you don't know what senses the critter possesses or how they work, it should be more difficulty (circumstance penalty), and, if you /do/ know, and have a good way around it, you might get a bonus. Either way, it should always be possible - merely having a sense, however accute, doesn't mean you can never just fail to notice something.

Derren · Sep 13, 2002

Yes, stealth will work. But only when you hide behind obstacles. Hiding in shadows will not work because blindsight ignores it.

Tony Vargas · Sep 13, 2002

'Shadows' are relative. Soft ground might be 'shadowy' to a creature with Tremorsense, for instance, as it doesn't conduct vibrations as well. The exact details are highly debateable, and more than it'd make sense to go into, but it's likely there are ways to avoid any sort of detection - if only be relying on the inatentiveness of the subject - and Hide/Sneak vs Spot/Listen rolls are the mechanics that model that.

Malin Genie · Sep 14, 2002

Unfortunately, just "hiding" won't work, as the text for Blindsight specifically states that a creature with Blindsight does not need to make Spot/Listen rolls to be aware of the location of opponents in range.

BlindKobold · Sep 15, 2002

This is what I have come up with so far...

* Sound - 2nd level spell - inaudible to prevent sound (with a ring of silence if they are using sonar)

* Scent - I'm going to pay a mage to research a similiar 2nd level spell that cancels out smell

* Sight - Then invisibility combined with my hide in plain sight, should take care of sight.

* Tremorsense - Boots of Gliding or Boots of Flying

Other ideas.... control air... control sound...