History, Mythology, Art and RPGs

Speaking of HEMA, the trailer of this movie Reclaiming the Blade

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxcBWl8-d0E]YouTube - Reclaiming the Blade: Official Trailer[/ame]

...has just come out. This film is likely to catapult HEMA into a wider understanding in the mass consciousness. Don't forget I was the first one to tell you about it

I think you may want to edit the title of this thread to something more appropriate to its content, like "Historical Adventurers" or "These Folks are Fantastic without being FANTASTIC!"

el-remmen said:

I think you may want to edit the title of this thread to something more appropriate to its content, like "Historical Adventurers" or "These Folks are Fantastic without being FANTASTIC!"

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Sounds good to me, how do you change the thread name?

Just edit the first post and change the title.

Galloglaich said:

Yes, that sounds more like what I'm talking about. I'll have to look that up. The key question is, would it be possible to do something like that with relatively simple rules? Could you do it in DnD?

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The thing is that that is a television series. It uses actual martial arts to create things beneficial to a television series, such as consistent and/or meaningful visual metaphors and fight scene choreography.

Not perfectly, of course. Actual Eastern martial arts do not shoot flame or freeze the rain into ice daggers. But what they take from them, at least in part, are moves that look like they might.

Playing a game of D&D, as long as it's say 4th edition instead of 12th, there is not much use for consistent visual metaphors and fight scene choreography. I'm not really sure that there is much use for anything, at least not to the degree that taking the time to study and appreciate actual Western martial arts would result in a net savings of time for all involved.

GlaziusF said:

Playing a game of D&D, as long as it's say 4th edition instead of 12th, there is not much use for consistent visual metaphors and fight scene choreography. I'm not really sure that there is much use for anything, at least not to the degree that taking the time to study and appreciate actual Western martial arts would result in a net savings of time for all involved.

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The idea isn't that every gamer should instantly want to learn all about HEMA, but that game designers who do understand Eastern or Western martial arts can bring the mechanics of fighting into the game. So that combat takes on more of the feel of a fight rather than an exercise in book-keeping or meaningless abstractions like pressing keys in a certain order to get a particular "combo" in WoW.

If you gave players a few cleverly wrought tools, on the same level of abstraction as the rules they use already but based on what a fight is really like, they could use these to make the 'game within the game' of combat a more fun and meaningful part of the overall experience. Done right this could be the solid foundation of many different styles of gaming done in all different directions, including your shooting flames or whatever.

And if in the process gamers learned a little strategy, or how every part of the sword can be used to attack, or that swords don't wiegh 8 pounds or what half-swording is- it won't hurt anybody any more than it hurt us to learn how to kill a gelatinous cube.

G.

EDIT i should point out though I'm not talking about 4E here, I don't know if 4E could be adapted to something like this. 3.5 / pathfinder might be another story ...

Here are a couple more interesting characters.

First, another great swordsman, though from a rather late period, he led a life similar to many of the medieval and ancient heroes.

Sir Richard Francis Burton 19th Century - CG
was an English explorer, translator, writer, soldier, orientalist, ethnologist, linguist, poet, hypnotist, fencer and diplomat. He was known for his travels and explorations within Asia and Africa as well as his extraordinary knowledge of languages and cultures. According to one count, he spoke 29 European, Asian, and African languages.[1]
Richard Francis Burton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can still buy his excellent, highly informative and still not completely dated book on Swords on Amazon.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Book-Sword-293-Illustrations/dp/0486254348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223001446&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: The Book of the Sword: With 293 Illustrations: Sir Richard F. Burton: Books[/ame]

and a few more of histories overlooked female warriors and pirates

Queen Teuta of Illlyria CN3rd Century BCIllyrian Female pirate queen and naval commander
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuta

Ethelfleda 872-918 AD LG
Female Saxon warrior, military leader, anti-Viking and privateer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethelfleda

Anne Dieu-le-Veut
Female French pirate 17th Century CN
"In 1683, Anne's husband was killed in a bar fight by the famous buccaneer Laurens de Graff. She challenged Laurens to a duel to avenge her husbands death (other sources claims she heard him insult her), and while Laurens drew his sword, Anne drew her gun."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Dieu-Le-Veut

Mai Bhago (late 17th century) LG
Female Sikh warrior and military leader
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mai_Bhago

And finally, arguably the greatest king England ever had... before there even was an England

Alfred the Great LG 849-899 AD
King of Wessex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_the_Great

el-remmen said:

Just edit the first post and change the title.

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That doesn't seem to work with a forked thread, unless I'm missing something

Galloglaich said:

If you gave players a few cleverly wrought tools, on the same level of abstraction as the rules they use already but based on what a fight is really like, they could use these to make the 'game within the game' of combat a more fun and meaningful part of the overall experience.

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Agreed. But most people see a false dichotomy: unrealistic, abstract, and fun vs. realistic, complex, and unplayable. I'd like to see a game that's simple and fairly abstract, but the decisions you do make are grounded in reality. I.e. If the other guy's covered in armor I can't penetrate, maybe I should tackle him and stick a knife in his eye. Or knock him into the stream. Or whatever.

mmadsen said:

Agreed. But most people see a false dichotomy: unrealistic, abstract, and fun vs. realistic, complex, and unplayable. I'd like to see a game that's simple and fairly abstract, but the decisions you do make are grounded in reality. I.e. If the other guy's covered in armor I can't penetrate, maybe I should tackle him and stick a knife in his eye. Or knock him into the stream. Or whatever.

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That is exactly what Jake Norwood did with TROS, and we have tried to do with our new OGL combat rules pdf. It's only a baby step but so far people seem to like it. If you'll send me your email address I'd really like to send you a free copy to have a look at.

G.