History, Mythology, Art and RPGs

Anyway, another major area where RPG's have veered away from an interesting reality is martial arts, specifically European martial arts which somewhat amazingly, tens of thousands of people who spend their weekends pretending to be knights and paladins, swashbucking pirates and "cunninge thieves" have never even heard of. Our characters wield swords and spears and quarter staves but most of us have absolutely no idea what a sword or a spear or a quarter staff was really like let alone how they were used.

The rediscovery of Historical European Martial Arts first began to slowly percolate into modern consciousness back in the 1990s, today it is a booming world-wide phenomenon. The sword-fighting techniques written down in books as far back as the 1300s are extremeley effective and are now pretty well understood, though we are still only scratching the surface.

Perhaps more surprisingly for many people, HEMA as it's now known has become a respected martial art, widely understood to be every bit as lethal as anything ever taught to a samurai.

Gary Gygax did some fairly good research on weapons back around the time he wrote the DmG but nobody back then really understood how sword fighting actually worked and the attempts to make up realistic combat were mostly focused on highly complex wound systems which slowed the game to a crawl. The closes thing most people ever saw to medieval combat was re-enactors at a Ren Faire or the SCA.... or a Monty Python movie. Most gamers turned away from what they thought was the reality of medieval combat and never looked back, after all, everybody knows only the samurai had any real technique in how they fought, right? Knights carried great clumsy ten pound "broadswords" they just hewed dents into each others armor with, right?

Well, no, thats wrong. HEMA is extremely sophisticated and effective and it's now pretty well understood. There are about 30 major HEMA groups worldwide now, and I don't even know how many schools, dozens I believe. A few RPG enthusiasts know about this, but most don't. So I think it's time I'd like to introduce DnD to the new reality..

To convey an idea of what is going on now, here are some videos depicting messer fighting techniques written down in books 500 years ago. A messer was kind of like a medieval machete... a very common weapon you probably aren't very familiar with since they never have them in movies or video games, or RPG's. The word actually means 'knife' but think of it as a kind of a light falchion, though some were quite large called "grossemessers" or "kriegmessers" and used with two-hands, something like a slightly butch katana.

1500fence.jpg

You can see one depicted in this old woodcut, these men are in HEMA fencing guards.

Here is a photo of a real one from about 1520

messer2.jpg


l_3347fbdcb5669bb1a6760370d4feb1f9.jpg

And this is a similar weapon called a 'schwisersabel' used in Switzerland.


Anyway, these videeos deal with the smaller machete sized weapon. This one is clever because they show you some quotes from the book, followed by the original drawings, then live action of HEMA fighters demonstrating the technique depicted. It's all done nice and slow so you can see the technique.
*snip*
Those videos were very interesting. Thanks for digging them out! ;)
 

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Raven Crowking

First Post
Raven did you ever get your comp copy?

G.

I've gotten it, and I have given it a first read-through.

Some ideas are similar (in intent, if not in rendering) to what I did for my 3.5 houserules -- i.e., tactical combat that doesn't rely on a grid, making weapon choice more than decoration, etc.

I especially liked that you included notes about using the system with animals.

This does increase the complexity of combat somewhat, but in a good way (as opposed to, in a "grid" way, if you take my meaning! :lol:). I'd be happy to write up a full review at some point, after trying out a few combats with the system.

Some notes:

1. You need another editting pass. I don't have my copy in front of me, but I noticed the word "is" ended up in the framing art on one page, the end of a sentence is lost to the ether on another, and there is no clear indication of what is OGC and what is Product Identity. I'd be happy to find the page numbers for you later, if you like.

2. The entire thing could be longer. Not because you need more "system", but because you could use more "bridging text".

3. From my quick read, it seems that the optional hp rules would make this system fast & furious, esp. in low-magic campaign worlds.

4. I am not a proponent of 4e, so I don't know how readily adaptable this system is to 4e, but I do know that it reads a heck of a lot better than the 4e combat system, IMHO.

Overall, first read makes it a pretty good document, and one that sparked my imagination. I could definitely see using this. In fact, if sales go well, I'd consider a monster document with CM info worked into the statblocks were I you.


RC
 

Galloglaich

First Post
I especially liked that you included notes about using the system with animals
This does increase the complexity of combat somewhat, but in a good way (as opposed to, in a "grid" way, if you take my meaning! :lol:). I'd be happy to write up a full review at some point, after trying out a few combats with the system.
I’d love to get a review and look forward to hearing about your experiments

4. I am not a proponent of 4e, so I don't know how readily adaptable this system is to 4e, but I do know that it reads a heck of a lot better than the 4e combat system, IMHO.
This was never written to be adaptable to 4e, though a guy was talking about some ideas along those lines in another thread here on Enworld.
Overall, first read makes it a pretty good document, and one that sparked my imagination. I could definitely see using this. In fact, if sales go well, I'd consider a monster document with CM info worked into the statblocks were I you.RC
One good thing is that because of the helpful policy in 3.5 E of breaking down monster AC into Natural Armor, Dex, etc. in the stat blocks it’s fairly easy to convert monsters “on the fly” over to this system.

We could do several possible expansions, but as you say all that depends on sales, which governs how much time and effort I can put in to it. Right now I’ll just be happy to be able to pay my artist and my layout guy.

Meanwhile we will continue to tinker with many ideas on our forum regardless, just for fun :)

G.
 
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Galloglaich

First Post
Just to show history can be fun... Here is a cool little video depicting a duel between two crossbowmen. Swift, instantly immersive, and historically grounded, down to the small details. Enjoy.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exrL4UEh8og"]YouTube - Rubedo[/ame]
 

Galloglaich

First Post
Here is a video depicting demonstrations of Gatka, a type of Sikh saber fencing. Similar to our western HEMA traditions and Japanese fencing traditions such as Kendo, the Sikhs keep their martial arts alive by training including contact sparring bouts (the sticks you see in the vid with the fuzzy orange hand-guards are their sparring weapons).

These three brothers were killed in a tragic drowning accident shortly after this video was made. Their fencing technique is beautiful to behold, all of the fencing techniques you see here go back 400 years and more, the Sikhs keep these traditions alive, it is an important part of their culture.

[ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YHtqGaR31Z8"]YouTube - G.U.P.T Tribute to Gursikhs[/ame]
 
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Galloglaich

First Post
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