Advanced Player's Guide questions

mach1.9pants · Oct 5, 2008

I agree on Demon Dance. MF has stated above it is supposed to be a daily, just read back a couple of posts. even then it is too powerful IMO. However that aside I really like the MA. the powers are a lot more interesting than many of the rangers and rogues.

Mouseferatu · Oct 5, 2008

Okay, guys, I'm going to give you the chance to chime on a change.

I'm willing to admit when I've made a mistake, and the truth is, even as a daily power, demon dance is still a little too good.

So, would you rather see it

A) weakened? or

B) moved to 5th level?

And if A, how would you prefer to see it done? Based on a non-primary stat for martial artists (probably strength)? Or something else?

Mouseferatu · Oct 5, 2008

Sorry you feel that way, Stalker.

WhatGravitas · Oct 5, 2008

Mouseferatu said:
And if A, how would you prefer to see it done? Based on a non-primary stat for martial artists (probably strength)? Or something else?

As it stands now, I see two problems with it:

a) It deals too much damage, and by using the [W] expression, it adds enhancement bonuses and other weapon-derived stuff (Weapon Focus), which makes it very damaging.
b) It clears minions in a big, big field, simply by being too close to the MA.

Personally, I see this as a possible "fix", or at least as a route to go:

To fix a), it should just deal damage equal to a stat modifier. This lowers the damage and avoids piling up additional bonuses.
Fixing b) is a bit harder, but I think doing the damage when an enemy ends it turn within 2 squares would do.

That way, minions are only killed if they move close and stay here. Furthermore, it ties into the general theme of strikers of being able to avoid attacks by the enemy - usually this is done by being movement.
This version of Demon Dance would effectively set up a disincentive to attack the MA directly, especially for weaker enemies.
The power is still interesting, as in conjunction with slow/immobilisation effects it is still very effect - effects the MA can use (and it also encourages teamwork).

Cheers, LT.

Stalker0 · Oct 5, 2008

Mouseferatu said:
Sorry you feel that way, Stalker.

Well....give me a chance to read the rest of it. If I find some solid stuff that I like I promise I will toot the horn

As for Demon Dance, I think the minion killing potential of this power is just too great right now, so lowering the damage isn't going to help. Besides, the monk is a striker, so I don't mind the damage as much. So you might consider lowering the radius on it to creatures adjacent to you, like rain of steel, which will help the problem.

You could in fact just make demon dance like rain of steel. ROS is probably one of the most strikerish powers a fighter gets, so giving it to the monk doesn't seem unreasonable.

GMforPowergamers · Oct 5, 2008

I got my copy today as I was going to my sat game, so I brought it with me...I have to say after all the lead up, and the great work I have seen you do it was a let down...Most of the mistakes I found are noticed here, especialy the Martial Art minnor attack, but they have a bunch of stances that minnor sustain...and the Damage is like hunters quarry when I would expect...since it can miss it would be like sneak att (2d6...3d6...5d6).

However even with all that, and the fact that it is B&W not color, it was still worth the $25. I see you have some GREAT ideas. I see you have some real great work, but I think you may have bitten off alittle more then you can chew.

all and all 2.5 stars, and 1 thumb up...

keep up the good work, your worst (that i know of) book is still better then alot of 3pp books I have seen over the last 8 years

Melfast · Oct 5, 2008

Demon Dance Redux

I suggest Daily 5 and change to damage = Wisdom Modifier (using same ability as Writhing Serpent Strike, which is not going to be as high as Dexterity).

I like the idea of moving it to affect characters who end their turns within 2 squares just to differentiate it from Rain of Steel (and I would not incorporate the requirement to have free Opportunity Attacks included in Rain of Steel).

As Stalker mentioned, this still becomes a minion killer, though because of the Range 2. Maybe range should be 1 even with the reduced damage?

Another option might be to have it take effect at the start of the Martial Artist's turn. The MA would have to use a minor action at beginning of her turn to effect up to Dex mod enemies within 2 squares with damage = Wis Mod. If you are a Hard Style MA, damage = +1; if you are a Soft Style than one of the enemies you damaged is knocked prone.

If you move this to level 5, then you also need to include another encounter power. Currently, none of the encounter powers give 2(W), unlike both Rogue and Ranger (the other strikers), so I see room for an encounter power that gives 2(W).

Maybe something that is Dex vs. AC, and opponent is unbalanced.

Destabilizing Strike
Martial Artist Attack 1
You strike an ememy's joints or other vulnerable points to knock your target off balance.
Encounter • Chi, Divine
Standard Action Melee: Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] and your target has -2 AC and Reflex penalty until beginning of your next turn

Or something that lets you judo flip the target

Crushing Throw
Martial Artist Attack 1
You use leverage and technique to throw your target crashing to the ground
Encounter • Chi, Divine
Standard Action Melee: Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W]
Effect: Slide target into square adjacent to you, and make target prone

OVerall I likethe book and look forward to using it in my campaign.

J-Dog · Oct 5, 2008

Hey, I like this book. If all it has wrong are a few spots of errata and one misplaced power, then I think you’re doing great. I can simply house rule out the Uber-power, but I don’t even have to do that because the author is cool and responsive. So I say, thumbs up, man! Good job, and thanks!

J-Dog

Specifically, I liked the fact that the abilities weren’t simple variations on the abilities in the PHB. If I wanted a sticky defender, I’d play a Fighter. The Savage Warrior pays you back for attacking someone else. Heck, he doesn’t even have to mark you to do it. So you don’t necessarily know it’s coming.

Stalker0 · Oct 5, 2008

Just to balance out some of my negative comments, I do like the lingering wound system. Its quick, easy to use, can be tailored to a person's campaign, and gives some more use for endurance

I also think the slightly deadly option is a great idea, it makes it so that lingering wounds aren't too commonplace, but doesn't require a lot of complicated tracking. My only fear is that it will encourage players to rest more frequently.

I think we will see a lot more use out of the disease track as time goes on, people in general seem to really like it.

Melfast · Oct 5, 2008

Spellbinder and Illusion Spells in Dragon 364

Ari,

The Class Acts article in Dragon 364 had nine new illusion spells for wizards (all from levels 1-10).

Given the specialization of the Spellbinder on illusions, would it make sense to trade some or all of these spells for the ones on the Spellbinder list?

I noticed some overlap between the Spellbinder level 1 attack Imaginary Terrain and the Utility 2 Phantasmal Terrain, and the at-will Illusory Ambush and the Spellbinder's at-will Phantom Strike.

I realize that your work on the Spellbinder and Rodney's work on the Class Acts article were going on at the same time, so you would not have been able to take these spells into account.

Since I intend to make both options available to my players, using the new illusion spells with their wizard and playing a Spellbinder, I was just trying to get a sense on how to balance the two.

Perhaps the simplest answer is to just let my players choose if they want to swap out a Spellbinder spell for one from the article. I don't think I would let Wizards go the other way though and take Spellbinder spells in lieu of theirs.

Thanks -- comments from everyone else are welcome as well.

Melfast