shield of bashing + shield spikes

Quickleaf · Oct 17, 2008

I'm building an 8th level knight (sword and board) to serve as my new D&D group's tank. I decided to get a +1 shield of bashing and wanted shield spikes. The "bashing" quality increases damage die by two sizes (e.g. heavy 1d4 to 1d8), and the shield spikes increase damage die by one size. So, do I increase damage of heavy shield by 3 sizes (1d10) or does the "bashing" quality trump the shield spikes (just 1d8)?

Thanks. B-)

P.S. My feats are listed below (* indicates homebrew):

(Human) Son of Hyerdahl* +1 dodge bonus AC vs. giants; speak Giant; Survival is a class skill
(Bonus) Man Among Giants* +2 saves vs. fear; reduce penalty intimidate/resist intimidation of larger foes by 8
(1) Power Attack
(2) Shield Specialization
(4) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
(5) Improved Shield Bash
(6) Agile Shield Fighter

Starbuck_II · Oct 17, 2008

Quickleaf said:
I'm building an 8th level knight (sword and board) to serve as my new D&D group's tank. I decided to get a +1 shield of bashing and wanted shield spikes. The "bashing" quality increases damage die by two sizes (e.g. heavy 1d4 to 1d8), and the shield spikes increase damage die by one size. So, do I increase damage of heavy shield by 3 sizes (1d10) or does the "bashing" quality trump the shield spikes (just 1d8)?

Thanks.

P.S. My feats are listed below (* indicates homebrew):

(Human) Son of Hyerdahl* +1 dodge bonus AC vs. giants; speak Giant; Survival is a class skill
(Bonus) Man Among Giants* +2 saves vs. fear; reduce penalty intimidate/resist intimidation of larger foes by 8
(1) Power Attack
(2) Shield Specialization
(4) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
(5) Improved Shield Bash
(6) Agile Shield Fighter

Spiked Shield and Bashing can't be used together. You have to choose to attack with one or the other.
Btw, the Spikes are masterwork only unless you seperately enchant them with a +1 enhancement.

Infiniti2000 · Oct 17, 2008

Starbuck_II said:
Spiked Shield and Bashing can't be used together. You have to choose to attack with one or the other.

I don't agree. Shield spikes says "When added to your shield, these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon that increases the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. You can’t put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack." To me, that alone is enough. The bashing property simply enhances shield bashing, so I think they stack.

So, it goes from 1d4->1d8 for the bashing property and then to 2d6 for the spikes (not 1d10).

Starbuck_II said:
Btw, the Spikes are masterwork only unless you seperately enchant them with a +1 enhancement.

Normally, yes, but the bashing property allows more: "The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash."

StreamOfTheSky · Oct 17, 2008

I agree you can combine spikes and the bashing property. ~~Also, for the OP, 1d8 would increase to 2d6, not 1d10.~~ Infiniti said it already.

blargney the second · Oct 17, 2008

Another agreement with Infiniti.

Alzrius · Oct 17, 2008

I don't believe that a spiked shield and the bashing magic quality stack. While Infiniti makes a good point, I think that reading is too literal - something that happens a lot with the RAW. I think that the fact that the shield spike is enchanted separately from the shield means that the spike's damage overlaps, not stacks, with the bashing quality.

StreamOfTheSky · Oct 18, 2008

Alzrius said:
I think that the fact that the shield spike is enchanted separately from the shield means that the spike's damage overlaps, not stacks, with the bashing quality.

Actually, even without spikes attached, you would have to enhance the shield separately as a weapon and as a shield.

Infiniti2000 · Oct 18, 2008

Alzrius said:
I don't believe that a spiked shield and the bashing magic quality stack. While Infiniti makes a good point, I think that reading is too literal - something that happens a lot with the RAW.

I think even when thinking about it from a non-RAW perspective it makes sense. I always hated the separation of the spike from the shield in the first place. Using a shield spike is the same action as bashing, so they work well together logically, too.

akbearfoot · Oct 18, 2008

If shield spikes have to be enchanted separately, yet they combine into the attack of a Bashing shield wouldn't that be a little crazy?

Couldn't you get a +1 Bashing/Frost/acidic/shock shield, and then add shield spikes enchanted to +1 frost/acid/shock/holy/etc... Then when you make a shield bash because of the wording Infini pointed out you would add the qualities together? Yay for the +10 shield, with +19 enhancment bonuses thats still not considered epic?