Middle-Earth 4.0

WHW4 · Oct 23, 2008

Well, after our group's first few months of playing 4th Edition, we all seem to enjoy it immensely. We began playing in Faerun, and all of us had fun characters.

We decided recently to go back to our Middle-Earth campaign, set in the year 2800 Third Age, just after the War of the Dwarves and Orcs has concluded.

The setting we had been using was Iron Heroes, a low-magic 3.5 variant. It seemed a great fit, and still does to myself as well as the rest of the group. Our DM for that campaign, after seeing how nifty the monsters work out in 4th edition, wants to give the same campaign a reboot but try
it with 4th rather than IH.

We're all willing to give it a shot, but I had one main concern that I wanted to ask about on behalf of our DM; namely magic items.
We are tentatively planning on just getting rid of the standard magic items (of course the occassional DM placed item is still going to happen), and using regular ol' mundane equipment to start with. My concern is that our power curve will definitly be off, but by how much? To what degree will encounters be changed at our 3rd level starting point? 10th level? 20th? Is it going to be an exponentially harder uphill battle as we gain levels? I figure alot of the monsters that get outgrown will last our group a couple or three more levels, seeing as we aren't going to be upgrading by +1's every few levels.

Has anyone run anything like this? Anyone see any other concerns with trying it this way? I'm not so much interested in trying to dissuade him from running it the way he wants as interested in problems and solutions.

Thanks in advance.

-Avalon- · Oct 23, 2008

Well, one thing is for sure, rings are the right levels for ye! lol

As for the rest, should be fairly well balanced with a a lil creativity involved... goblins at low levels, orcs at higher levels, and trolls even higher... more evenly spaced than in 3.x.

As for magic items, never was it said in any of the books that the type of magic items listed in the PHB were non-existant...

Elven cloaks, Sting (presumably a Duelist's Dagger), etc...

I think it will work well, maybe cut back on magic items a lil, and give out more coin and rituals (not enchant item of course)

VenezuelanWiz · Oct 23, 2008

It has also been said that the magical bonus progression is relatively easy to add into the level progression. You just need to give the players a +1 bonus every 5 levels I believe. That way by lvl 30 they all will have a +6 bonus. From running a game what this does is make it that every 5 levels the party gets 3 magical items. So its a sudden jump, but by that point the monster progression expects the party to have +1 bonuses.

What you can do is stagger it allowing the party to pick where a +1 bonus goes @ lvl, 2-4-5, then again at 7-9-10, and so on, requiring that it be a different item slot each time [weapon / to hit, armor / AC, defenses / Will,Ref,Fort from a cloak].

This'll take out some of the interesting powers that the party gets from items, but keeps the strict math in line to what I believe is expected.

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
VzlanWiz

Edit: And I've been considering switching to this format for the strict numerical bonuses. so that I can just give the party interesting items without having to worry about "needing" to give them a magical item so they keep up with the mathematical progression.

Nikosandros · Oct 23, 2008

The easiest thing is probably just to give a +1 to attacks, damage and all defenses every 5 levels to all the characters. You could start around level 3.

Mathew_Freeman · Oct 23, 2008

Nikosandros said:
The easiest thing is probably just to give a +1 to attacks, damage and all defenses every 5 levels to all the characters. You could start around level 3.

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. By doing this you avoid mechanical problems within the system (the "math") and also avoid handing out magical items too much. Simple!

WHW4 · Oct 23, 2008

I think I'll suggest the +1 per 5 levels idea. It's simple and easy to remember. Lets us focus more on the RP and less on trying to resolve mechanics.

Thanks a load guys!

1of3 · Oct 23, 2008

If you do so, you might want to include the bonuses for masterwork armors, as well. Otherwise characters who wear heavy armor have a disadvantage.

WHW4 · Oct 23, 2008

1of3 said:
If you do so, you might want to include the bonuses for masterwork armors, as well. Otherwise characters who wear heavy armor have a disadvantage.

Right you are, I will be sure to mention it to him. Maybe we can sort of "unlock" them once we're at the levels we would have gotten access to them. Not sure exactly how it works as we haven't progressed into paragon tier in any campaign yet. I just know they have requisite enhancement bonus that you have to buy on the armor for it to BE that armor.

Palladion · Oct 23, 2008

Remember to state that the bonus is an enhancement bonus, in case you do give out a magical item of the type (weapon, armor, amulet). DMG 174 has a monster magic threshold for more on the idea everyone has presented here.

Simm · Oct 23, 2008

Honestly you can probably keep the magic items as long as you reflavour them or remove the flashier effects. LotR doesn't have much magic but oh look, this sword was forged my men of Numinor and now you can cut through undead like butter. This armour light as silk but that doesn't prevent it stopping a hit from a troll.