[Mage: the Awakening] Legacy of the Stone Assembly - Page 16




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  1. #151
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    ° Ignore Hella_Tellah
    Quote Originally Posted by magic_gathering2001 View Post
    So for a conjunctional mind 1/prime 1, I could get both vision effects? Or would it be prime 2/mind 1, or mind 2/prime 1, or mind 2/prime 2?
    Since you have gnosis 3, you can combine two spells at a given time by increasing the dot requirement of both spells by one. Hence, if you want to combine Supernal Vision with Aura Perception or Third Eye, you could do it with Prime 2/Mind 2. You would use the lower of the two dice pools and take a -2 penalty, so it would be Gnosis (3) + Mind (2) - Combination Penalty (2) = 3.

    I had the terminology mixed up on Conjunctional spells, as is the ever-present danger in Mage. Conjunctional spells are spells that, by design, use multiple arcana, or that can have an additional element of an arcanum mixed in. The Fate 1 spell Sharpshooter's Eye is a good example: by design, it combines Fate and Space, and you have an option of using Life or Matter to lock on to either a living thing or an object.

    So my general ruling is this: if it's combining the effects of two existing spells, use the Combined spell rules. When creating a brand new spell with Creative Thaumaturgy, it will be conjunctional if the spell seems to thematically require multiple arcana toward a related effect. If the effects seem totally unrelated, we'll roll them as combined spells. For example, if you'd like to cast a spell that transmutes a spirit into a block of steel, it will be conjunctional Spirit/Matter. If, on the other hand, you want to freeze a spirit in place while liquifying a steel door, I'll rule it as combined.

    In the specific instance of using two Mage Sight spells at once, I'm going to rule that they need to be cast as combined.

 

  • #152
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    ° Ignore Solarious
    And, of course, Supernal Vision is specifically mentioned to be able to be cast conjunctionally with Mind 1 for Aura Perception, because both spells reveal a portion of the aura. Only the conjunctional spell reveals both at once. Just to clarify things.

    Combining Third Eye and Supernal Vision will be a combined spell, per Tellah's ruling.

    The spirit metal-petrification spell, on the other hand, would actually a Matter/Life conjunctional spell with Spirit 2 to allow it to affect spirits.
    Game balance is a myth that I wholeheartedly subscribe to. ~ Sepulchrave II

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  • #154
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    ° Ignore Hella_Tellah
    Quote Originally Posted by Solarious View Post
    The spirit metal-petrification spell, on the other hand, would actually a Matter/Life conjunctional spell with Spirit 2 to allow it to affect spirits.
    Wait, I don't see where Life factors into it, if the spell affects a spirit. Not that it matters much, since no one is casting it right now

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    ° Ignore Solarious
    It has something to do with the base petrification spell being a Matter/Life spell, and to allow it to affect spirits you add Spirit 2. I think it has to do with the rule of thumb of Life spells just needing a conjunctional arcana to affect other supernatural templates... spirit 2 for werewolves, death 2 for vampires, prime 2 for protheans, and so on.

    I suppose Spirit/Matter could petrify a spirit. It'll be a weird spell though...
    Game balance is a myth that I wholeheartedly subscribe to. ~ Sepulchrave II

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    ° Ignore Hella_Tellah
    Quote Originally Posted by Solarious View Post
    ...weird spell...
    My favorite kind!

    Your explanation of how the spells affect supernatural templates makes sense, though.

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    ° Ignore Shayuri
    My communities:

    Okay, so, on reading the description, I could have Juno cast Spirit Tongue with a Death 1 component, to be able to see both spirits and ghosts in the Twilight.

    Is that conjunctional, or would that require bloated Gnosis and Arcana and all that?

  • #158
    It's a simple conjunctional spell. At least, by the book. The Storyteller has the final say of course, but I'm pretty positive that Hella_Tellah will agree.

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    ° Ignore Hella_Tellah
    Quote Originally Posted by Shayuri View Post
    Okay, so, on reading the description, I could have Juno cast Spirit Tongue with a Death 1 component, to be able to see both spirits and ghosts in the Twilight.

    Is that conjunctional, or would that require bloated Gnosis and Arcana and all that?
    The description for Spirit Tongue says it has an option to add in Death 1 to see ghosts better, so yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by M:tA 246
    The mage can see ghosts, too, but they appear hazy and indistinct and he cannot hear them unless he also uses Death 1 while casting this spell.
    As a general principle, if the spell has a written additional component a mage can use conjunctionally, that's always going to be an option. I'd be a jerk otherwise! I just want to avoid a situation where a player wants to keep the number of spells s/he has active low, so s/he casts two or three unrelated spells at once "conjunctionally" to bypass that limitation. With written spells, I'll approach things with some degree of rigor. On the other hand, if you're making up spells from scratch with Creative Thaumaturgy, I'm likely to be very, very generous in what you can do by combining Arcana.

    I'm quickly learning that play-by-post really is a more detail oriented style of play--if we were all sitting at the table playing together, the last two pages of text would have boiled down to me saying, "Go for it!" I feel more of a responsibility to make consistent rulings in play by post, though, since it's all in writing.

    Also: I'm going down to my parents' house from approximately now through Saturday, so my posting will be at best erratic for that time.

  • #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Hella_Tellah View Post
    Also: I'm going down to my parents' house from approximately now through Saturday, so my posting will be at best erratic for that time.
    Same for me, except make it Sunday.

    Also Shayuri, if you didn't catch it, Prometheus is waiting on Thorn.

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