Proposal 1 - dragon#364 made legal

Dunamin · Dec 20, 2008

elecgraystone said:
I know that reach weapons do not extend the area you can OA in, but I'm not sure on the others. What makes the weapons at-will power different from the players at-will basic attack? Off hand I don't remember anything that would stop you from using it for a non-reach OA, charge or any of the warlord powers that let you make a basic attack.

If there is something that states this, please let me know where it is.

I'm not really sure how there can be any doubt that the weapon's At-Will power is different from a basic attack. Unlike a Flaming Weapon, for instance, you can't just turn the property on and leave it there, nor can you activate the power when it’s not your turn.

Magic Missile and Eldritch Blast specifically note they can be used in place of ranged basic attacks - the weapon power does not have a similar disclaimer pertaining to melee basic attacks. You would be looking for a power like Brutal Rebuke (Fighter 13 Encounter from Martial Power), which explicitly notes it can be used on an OA.

elecgraystone · Dec 22, 2008

Well the power comes out and says it's a basic attack; "Make a melee basic attack with the weapon" Why wouldn't you be able to use it when you can make a basic attack? If not why SAY make a basic attack? They could make it a [w] + strength attack instead. When it says Basic attack, I figure you can use it as a basic attack.

EDIT: Pulled out the rules. (free rules so wording my vary)

Basic Attack
As a standard action, you can make a melee basic attack or a ranged basic attack. Used for Opportunity Attacks and charges.

Power (At-Will): Standard Action. Make a melee basic attack with the weapon, with reach one greater than normal.

CHARGE
As a standard action, you can launch yourself forward and make a melee basic attack.

What makes the melee basic attack from the power unusable in a charge? Both basic attack and the power give you a melee basic attack for a standard action.

Atanatotatos · Dec 22, 2008

Both actions give you a basic attack. That means that at-will power is not a basic attack: it is an at will that allows you to make a basic attack with a bonus (reach). Charge is a standard action that includes a movement within certain restrictions and a basic attack: not any power that includes a basic attack, but just a basic attack, see the entry in the Phb.

elecgraystone · Dec 22, 2008

That would also mean that basic attack wouldn't work, since it just gives you a melee basic attack. Charge only says make a melee basic attack, it doesn't say where it has to comes from.

I'll be honest I don't see why it wouldn't work. Both are at will, standard actions that give a basic melee attack. I may be wrong, but I can't see why one basic attack is ok, but another is wrong. Both are melee basic attacks, and that's all that charge and OA requires.

Atanatotatos · Dec 23, 2008

A basic attack doesn't give you a basic attack. It IS a basic attack.

covaithe · Dec 23, 2008

Charge or OA allows you to make a melee basic attack. What it doesn't allow you to do is use a power. The magic spear grants an item power which takes a standard action. It doesn't matter what that power does; you can't use it at the end of a charge or for an OA any more than you could use Sly Flourish at the end of a charge.

There are powers that explicitly state that they're exceptions to this; that they can be used at the end of a charge. See for ex. the barbarian playtest article.

Atanatotatos · Dec 26, 2008

Merry Christmas to all, guys and gals!

Here is it: Reaching stance. It is the 12th lvl power of the polearm master, from Martial Power. Gives threatening reach. It is a daily stance, so it should basically be one encounter per day, but with all those means of recharging powers, that's not obvious at all.Furthermore, the 16th lvl power of the pp extends the area of Combat challenge from adjacent to 2 squares.
Did somebody else already report the power?

covaithe · Dec 26, 2008

No, thanks for pointing that out, Ata. Reading it, I think there's still no way to get OAs with reach 3 using a Myrdoon's shard spear. With the artifact in that article, you could, but I'm not terribly concerned about that at this point.

Of course, it's already passed now and we couldn't change it for a while even if we found a glaring exploit. But it's nice to know we haven't screwed up that badly, yet.

JoeNotCharles · Dec 26, 2008

elecgraystone said:
Well the power comes out and says it's a basic attack; "Make a melee basic attack with the weapon" Why wouldn't you be able to use it when you can make a basic attack? If not why SAY make a basic attack? They could make it a [w] + strength attack instead. When it says Basic attack, I figure you can use it as a basic attack.

I believe the point is for things like Magic Missile and Eldritch Blast, which actually count as basic attacks:

Magic Missile
Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When
a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can
use this power.

I don't believe there are any powers that work like this for a melee basic attack, but if there were, you could use them at the end of a charge, or with an OA, or with the Myrdoon's Shard weapon power. (Maybe they plan to add something like this in one of the new classes.)

Actually, as written it's not clear whether you could use a melee analogue of Magic Missile with a charge or an OA, since they're not powers. They'd definitely work with Myrdoon's Shard, though.