Where Has All the Magic Gone?

Jack7 said:

Why don't they make Magic Items like they used to?

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It was abstracted away.

Common arc to the evolution of games: Original creators interested in both flavor and mechanics together, looking for mechanics that evoke a certain atmosphere. Later designers get more focused on the numbers and mechanics that play on those numbers.

IMO it's easier to strip out flavor than add it back in to empty mechanics. But I'm not part of 4E's market or design camp.

SPoD said:

Not every person who picks up the game wants Mystery and Wonder. And it is easier for a DM who wants it to put it back than it is for a DM who doesn't to remove it.

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Delta said:

IMO it's easier to strip out flavor than add it back in to empty mechanics. But I'm not part of 4E's market or design camp.

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I think I agree with Delta on this one. As for people not wanting mystery and wonder in their game isn't it just easier for them to ignore the fluff and concentrate on the crunch? Mystery and wonder to me is a big feature of a game though.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

I agree with Jack7, for the most part. It has been my observation that magical items have become very "blah." Most of them have lost versatility and flavor in exchange for steady mechanics. I really wish the creators would have taken a bit more time and developed magic items that contained solid mechanics as well as flavor.

I try to create mystery with the magic items my character own, with limited success. I rarely mention the exact nature of the item, if asked. Instead, I try to give the items mystical sounding names, and I work to detail the items history.

Jack7 said:

I was looking through my AD&D books tonight and noticed how versatile and multi-functional so many of the magic items were.

They were powerful, and they were odd, and fascinating, and most important of all a lot of them could do all kinds of things.

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And are often broken balance wise, 4E cares more about balance than previous editions IMO

Where has all the magic gone?

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here

FireLance said:

4e seems to have made a clearer distinction between magic items that are basic tools, and magic items that are clearly meant to be complex and mysterious. The former are the magic items that you find in the PH and AV (although you will find a few relatively complex and multifunctional items there, too). The latter are the artifacts in the DMG and sourcebooks such as Draconomicon.

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ProfessorCirno said:

I think this problem started rearing it's head most in third edition and past. It might be just nostalgia, but I remember magic items being more awesome in 2e.

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I remember 2e to be a good game. Nostalgia is a bitch...



Seriously. I agree 100%. But maybe it is because our characters became more able, more powerful with 3e and 4e. I mean, as a fighter, all you could do in 2e was hit and be hit, at least if you didn't go beg your DM to "buy your idea". With the later editions, you have so many more options, on your sheet/by the rules.

Also, some stuff was sacrifized on the altar of balance.

I think the change from 2e to 3e brought about a lot of thus. I think it was a sacrifice under the alter of everything being bound under rules and the idea of simply using fluff was beheaded. Everything had some mechanic or rule behind it, and as such the more imaginative magical items that wouldn't fit neatly into mechanics began to disappear.

Sir Brennen said:

Okay! Here's a +1 Sword from my 1st edition game! And my wand of fireballs that does 6d6 and has 12 charges left!

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Nice try. The wand of fire from 1e could do burning hands, fireball, pyrotechnics, and wall of fire. Much more fun than any old wand of fireballs. A lot of 1e stuff was way more versatile than later editions.

Totally agree. I don't even need to open my 1E DMG to come up with examples. Apparatus of Kwalish? Ring of Shooting Stars, anyone? I looked through the magic item section of 4E and found it incredibly dull, even worse than the Monster Manual.

And whoever said that its easier to put this stuff in than take it out is dead wrong. My 1E DMG has hundreds of cool magic items. It would take me an awfully long time to come up with even a fraction of that number myself. Sure I could do it, but I've kind of come to expect that the game should provide those for me.

Jack7 said:

Where has all the magic gone?
It's gone to hell with the idea that magic is about power shots and ammo counts rather than about mystery and wonder.

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Well, that and standardization. I noticed this most clearly with the "Rod of Wonder" in 3E. Why did it go from "Wand of Wonder" in AD&D to "Rod of Wonder" in 3E? Because in 3E, Rods can be used by everybody but all wands can only be used by Wizards. In other words... the Design Cops got mad at the Wand of Wonder for breaking the rules.

Hello... way to miss the point! The Wand of Wonder was all about breaking the rules. Yeah, it's a wand that can be used by a Fighter. So what? It's also a wand that can shoot a rhinoceros at your foe. It doesn't play well with others. What part of "This wand shoots rhinoceroses" suggests that it should play well with others?

Really, though, throughout 3E and 4E I see a continual striving for standardization, rationalization and a smooth mechanistic balance. Hence the tirelessly tiring treatment of magic items as nothing more than pieces of sparkly technology. They all work the same, they all follow the same rules, they contain no surprises and behave exactly as you would expect... The End.

Yet another reason that I like the kooky old products such as OD&D and AD&D. In OD&D, Elves choose at the beginning of the adventure whether they will play as a Fighting Man or a Magic-User for that adventure. They switch classes from adventure to adventure. "But that doesn't make any sense!" you cry. You're right... they're creepy fae folk that live lives ultimately beyond the ken of mortal man. Of course they're weirdos.

Really, you can keep your Fordist Fantasy. And I'll keep my schizo-elfs riding around in apparatuses of Kwalish shooting rhinoceroses at the bullywug hordes.

Aus_Snow said:

A clever and imaginative DM (or GM) makes all the difference. Yes, regardless of game (or edition).

Of course, clever and imaginative players help a ton, as well.

Seriously, that's it. No more, no less.

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I honestly wish I could still cling this facile outlook on gaming. Being clever and creative is all you need when the people you're trying to dazzle are guileless and inexperienced. A canny (or simply jaded) player will look beneath the candy coating to see whether there's something of substance.