D&D 4E Discussing Movement in 4e

Beta · Dec 17, 2008

Upon reviewing movement rules in 4e I've notice a number of peculiarities:

4e defines a turn as 6 seconds. In a turn you can move twice by using both your move action and standard action.

Considering that base movement speed for most characters is 6 squares and running gives +2 squares, that grants a total of 8 squares for 1 move action.

8 squares * 2 move actions = 16 squares.

1 square = 5 feet.

16*5 = 80 feet / 6 seconds
or ~13.3feet/sec(fps) or ~9 miles per hour(mph)
Running 6 minute miles is quite easy, and 4 minute miles is very fast. So that's 10mph and 15mph respectively. Many people can achieve a 15mph sprinting speed. Why is 4e's speed so low?

Next to horses: Considering that the speed of a riding horse is 10 squares, and running is 10+2, that gives riding horses a full turn movement spent running of 24 squares. 24 squares = 120 feet;
20fps = ~13.6mph
That's less than what a human can run!
A horse that isn't bred in any particular manner should be able to run at 30mph, with better horses achieving over 40mph. (specific circumstances can allow some horses to achieve speeds of over 50mph)

This isn't taking into account that traveling diagonally counts as 5 feet based on the rules even though it should be treated as 7 (this is a minor issue compared to the speed issue).
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How did previous editions deal with these issues and were the speeds much different than they are now (in 4e)?

James McMurray · Dec 17, 2008

D&D is a simulation game usually played on a battlemat approximately 3' x 4' wide. Six squares is plenty of movement to allow for tactical combat and yet still small enough that you can confine battles to a single mat the majority of the time.

Previous editions also had speed issues, though 4th is the first to flat out measure things in squares. Previously it was inches (where 1" = 10' or 10 yards depending on whether you were inside or out. 3e started measuring everything in feet, but everything in cration had a movement rate divisible by 5.

The short of it is that D&D has never attempted to accurately model reality. It's just a game.

Lizard · Dec 17, 2008

The movement rules pretty much only apply in battle, and we can safely assume you're not running on a track where no one's trying to kill you. The numbers aren't so wonky as to cause a major disconnect, at least not for me. Now, the carrying capacities of war elephants...

DDogwood · Dec 17, 2008

If it bothers you that the combat movement speeds don't represent accurate real-world running speeds, then this might be the wrong game for you.

That said, there are several factors that you haven't considered:

Combat movement, even running, doesn't require the PC or creature to move in a straight line - and any runner can tell you that zig-zagging eats up a lot of speed.
There are a number of feats that allow PCs to improve their speed, such as Fast Runner or Fleet-Footed.
The movement speeds provided are for moving over uneven terrain such as open grass, cobblestone roads, or typical dungeon floors, not paved roads or running tracks.
The typical adventurer doesn't wear Nikes. Adventuring boots probably aren't great for running.
A combat round represents about six seconds, so it is not a precise measure.
You say that the difference between 7 feet and 5 feet is not significant, but it shows that your speeds are up to 30% off!

At the end of the day, though, 4e is supposed to be about playability, not realism. It's also bizarre that resting for 6 hours is enough to heal the most grievous combat wounds, but that's the way the game works.

defendi · Dec 17, 2008

My buddy Gary put it best when he realized that in Star Wars Saga, you could only theoretically throw a grendade less than thirty yards (Less than the distance to first base, an easy throw.) He said:

"I know your a game designer and you probably don't know anything about sports, but I'm sure you know someone who does!"

firesnakearies · Dec 17, 2008

Not to mention the fact that the weight, bulk, and general awkwardness of the gear most PCs are probably wearing/carrying around isn't exactly ideal for one's running form...

ForbidenMaster · Dec 17, 2008

I thought that we stopped with that whole infinite oregano stuff a while ago. All speed is is an arbitrary line in the sand there to help balance the game. Nothing more.

Mathew_Freeman · Dec 17, 2008

DDogwood said:
At the end of the day, though, 4e is supposed to be about playability, not realism. It's also bizarre that resting for 6 hours is enough to heal the most grievous combat wounds, but that's the way the game works.

Yup, that's exactly how the game works, with regards to movement and healing.

It's not realistic, but neither does it claim to be. It is a workable game first, and a simulation second.

And to be honest, the "all squares are a five foot step" issue, including diagonals, makes absolutely no difference at all to combats or to movement in general. It's a simplification for the purposes of fun, and I'm all in favour of that!

ExploderWizard · Dec 17, 2008

No edition of D&D has ever attempted to simulate realistic movement speeds. An unencumbered man in AD&D could move 12" (120 feet in scale) but the combat round was a whole minute! Talk about slow.

Minigiant · Dec 17, 2008

It's an abstraction for combat speed. You usually don't run top speed in combat. In most of the fights I've seen/been in/watched on TV, (except when someone is running away) people only move about 10 feet a second or run 15 feet a second.