Wrath of the River King - Wolfgang Baur's Open Design

Baron Opal · Dec 26, 2008

Rechan said:
So it's $30 for a product that you can't even buy after the fact.

Huh? No, if you are a patron you get a copy. You can get a spiffy color, hardback copy from Lulu if you want to pay the extra amount. The amount of influence you have over its direction is dependant on how much you invest. Also there are other benefits with higher contributions.

Rechan · Dec 26, 2008

Baron Opal said:
Huh? No, if you are a patron you get a copy. You can get a spiffy color, hardback copy from Lulu if you want to pay the extra amount. The amount of influence you have over its direction is dependant on how much you invest.

When you say "Patron" do you mean paying $30 to be a supporter?

Look, this is how it looks:

Pay $30. You get the finished PDF.
Pay more money, and you can get a hard copy.
But you have to do this before the product is finished, or you can't even get it; if I became a patron now, I can't get WotRK, as posters have pointed out up-thread.

Regardless of whether more money gets you more involved in the process, the bottom line is: pay $30 just so you can Get a PDF for a limited time. And if you want the hard copy, you have to pay more.

That, in my opinion, is a highway robbery bordering on a scam.

catsclaw227 · Dec 26, 2008

If I pay at the supporter level, and not a full patron, then I get the PDF and I believe I can buy the hard copy on Lulu. I could be wrong, but I don't think that any level of patronage gets you a free Lulu hardcopy.

Everyone that contributes gets the PDF and the option to buy on Lulu

Patron level contributions allow one to be part of the development process, offering up ideas, voting on encounter options, offering up Monster ideas, submitting thoughts about how something should work out, etc.

Rechan · Dec 26, 2008

catsclaw227 said:
If I pay at the supporter level, and not a full patron, then I get the PDF and I believe I can buy the hard copy on Lulu. I could be wrong, but I don't think that any level of patronage gets you a free Lulu hardcopy.

I understand that.

I just object to it, and am stating my opinion over the terms.

The patron benefits have nothing to do with it.

Baron Opal · Dec 26, 2008

Rechan said:
When you say "Patron" do you mean paying $30 to be a supporter?

Look, this is how it looks:...

Close. That's the idea, but just for semantics sake and speaking from my own experience:

I paid $25. That gave me access to design journals, polls to guide monster, encounter and theme development. There was a community of patrons that could discuss aspects that we liked and disliked, with Wolfgang taking this into account. The process took about 3 months; I had something interesting to read at least once a week. I was one of the DMs chosen to playtest a portion of the adventure.

I was also given the opportunity to purchase Castle Shadowcrag, the previous project.

At the close, we were given a pdf. A period of time later, I forget how long, we were given a pdf with all of the editing corrections and errata incorporated into the pdf.

If / when we wished, we could go to a separate entity and pay them to produce a physical copy. Wolfgang set things up with Lulu for our convienence, but it could have been any third party we wished. He did all of the copyright footwork with them. He didn't get a cut of the Lulu price.

If you put your money down, you get a pdf. You may consider that overpriced, but you are getting something custom made. When it is done, it is yours. The time limit comes in when the project is started and someone wants in after the project is completed.

If I am understanding your concerns, I share them to a certain extent. I don't think that it is in the least underhanded, but I do find it expensive. And, it is the reason why I have bought in on only one project. It would have to be directly applicable to my gaming needs, with very little adaption. Also, it takes some time to keep abreast of what the pending projects are. You want to buy in at the beginning, not at the end.

I really wanted Steam and Brass. Badly.

Rechan · Dec 26, 2008

Baron Opal said:
Close. That's the idea, but just for semantics sake and speaking from my own experience:

I paid $25. That gave me access to design journals, polls to guide monster, encounter and theme development. There was a community of patrons that could discuss aspects that we liked and disliked, with Wolfgang taking this into account. The process took about 3 months; I had something interesting to read at least once a week. I was one of the DMs chosen to playtest a portion of the adventure.

Except that's not the impression that I"m getting.

Instead, $30 only gives you the PDF. $100 grants access to the design journals, polls, encounter and theme development, community discussions, and influence to actually suggest things.

Starglim · Dec 26, 2008

Rechan said:
Except that's not the impression that I"m getting.

Instead, $30 only gives you the PDF. $100 grants access to the design journals, polls, encoutner and theme development, community discussion

That impression is wrong.

Some amount less than $30 (half price, last time) only gets you the PDF.

$30 grants access to the design journals, polls, encounter and theme development, community discussion. If you get in late, these will obviously be of less value to you.

$100 (or more, if you want to fill the ransom faster) gets you more access, but basically means that you want to work more directly on the project yourself.

mach1.9pants · Dec 26, 2008

Monkey King said:
The next Open Design may be 4th Edition based. It starts up around the New Year.

Great news, I was a patron for the River King...and enjoyable experience to see it develop...although I didn't have much input it was good to see. I suppose the first time you go for something like this you are a bit quiet, well I was anyway!

The module seems great, I haven't read it fully yet (my colour printer is at work and I loath reading from the PC) and obviously haven't played it. I would enjoy another 4E go, so will put my vote towards that!

And it is cool to have your name in the product

Rechan · Dec 26, 2008

Starglim said:
That impression is wrong.

Some amount less than $30 (half price, last time) only gets you the PDF.

$30 grants access to the design journals, polls, encounter and theme development, community discussion. If you get in late, these will obviously be of less value to you.

$100 (or more, if you want to fill the ransom faster) gets you more access, but basically means that you want to work more directly on the project yourself.

Except you said this earlier

Starglim said:
In recent projects the "supporter" level has been less than the patron level, has only been available up until the project is commissioned and has not given access to any design discussions, only the choice of project (by contributing proportionally to the ransom) and the finished product.

So which is it? Either the $30 only gives you the PDF, or it gives you access to the design stuff.

I mean, I'm looking at the Open Design section of the KQ Store, and the only options are $30 and $75.

Starglim · Dec 26, 2008

Rechan said:
Except you said this earlier

So which is it? Either the $30 only gives you the PDF, or it gives you access to the design stuff.

edit: half price (actually, I think it was $12 at the time), for the last project, was the supporter level that only got the PDF. I believe this was new to that round and may be different for the next one.

$30 is the patron level that gives you access to the design discussions.